Can Indonesia Grow Without Burning More Coal? Ep280: Sandiaga Uno

Indonesia is facing a defining question: can it continue to grow its economy while making the shift towards a greener future? In this episode of Cleaning Up, guest host Marie Cheong speaks with Sandiaga Uno, chair of Mutuagung Lestari International and former Deputy Governor of Jakarta and Minister of Tourism, about Indonesia’s potential to become a major player in the green economy, and why the country’s natural resources, growing energy needs and entrepreneurial ecosystem could create significant opportunities for climate solutions and investment. They explore whether green investing could be the next major growth opportunity, why the economics need to stack up, and how moving beyond the idea of a “green premium” towards “green discounts” could make sustainable business models more competitive. From the challenge of moving away from coal while meeting rising energy demand, to the potential of carbon credits and nature-based solutions, the conversation looks at what it will take to turn Indonesia’s green potential into real economic and environmental value and what investors should consider before taking the plunge. Topics covered in this episode: - Indonesia’s green growth potential - Green investing’s next growth cycle - Green premiums vs. green discounts - Politics and the energy transition - Moving beyond coal - Carbon credits and nature-based solutions - Turning green potential into profits - What green investors should look for Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. Links - Sandiaga Uno’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandiaga-salahuddin-uno-7803b642a/ - Saratoga: https://saratoga-investama.com/ - Sandiaga’s article for the Center for International Relations and Sustainable  Development: https://cirsd.org/horizon-article/from-rebuilding-to-refining-2/ - Mutuagung Lestari Tbk (MUTU): https://mutucertification.com/en/ - Subscribe to the Cleaning Up Newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com Acronyms: - MUTU: Mutuagung Lestari International - JETP: Just Energy Transition Partnership - SBY: Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, previous President of Indonesia Chapters 00:00 Intro 00:51 About Indonesia 13:03 Saratoga’s Evolution 20:47 Green Discounts 26:18 Energy Transition 32:08 Rising Energy Demand 37:14 Growth and Policy 43:23 Carbon Credits 52:33 Nature-Based Solutions 55:21 Climate Investing 01:02:31 Outro