CCEF Podcast: Where Life & Scripture Meet
Jul 6, 2026 · 39 min · 11 segments
Our bodies, relationships, culture, suffering, work, spiritual battles, and life experiences all shape us in significant ways. Yet none of these influences alone defines who we are. As image bearers…
Gunner GundersenHost
Mike EmletGuestJonathan HolmesGuest
Guys, can we talk for a moment about a question that we're trying to lean into in every single one of these distinctives? Because the second half of our mission is restoring counseling to the church and restoring counseling to the local church, to local bodies of worship.
believers, why does this distinctive matter for our local churches? Why does it matter for local church pastors and members to continue to grow as we continue to grow in understanding this world of influences?
I mean, I think because we are called to be one another's keeper, in a sense, we are called to love one another.
I think the expression or one expression of love is I seek to know this person, whether it's in a five-minute conversation during a break in the service or in the coffee hour after service or... you know, in a sit-down meal, I want to know this person as fully as I can.
And so, I think that That's really important for the body to be functioning well and in community and bearing one another's burdens.
How can we bear one another's burdens if we don't actually know what they are? And so I think that importance of...
Curiosity, taking the time to ask some questions, being quick to listen and slow to speak, James 1.19, I think, such an important characteristic for our church bodies.
I mean, for me, at least, Gunnar, when I think about the local church and how this distinctive hits the ground, I think the local church really is the ideal context where all of these different influences get talked about, get shared, get informed, become sanctified even.
When you think about the opportunity to come together as believers to have people inquire about some of the things Mike was just referencing, to be able to be vulnerable enough to be honest about some of the physical struggles or weaknesses, the church is an ideal place for that to happen.
Who else are you going to see on a regular basis? Who else are you most likely going to be living geographically close to and opening up your heart to? well those are people in your church it's people that you sit in your pews with every day and uh in a lot of the studies on addiction and literature and what are some ideal places for rehab and for people to overcome addiction a lot of times what they end up describing is a church at the end of describing a place where you come regularly where there's routines where you're treated with respect and you can be vulnerable where it's you know free you're not having to pay an arm and a leg and i think to myself I think what you're getting after is what God's already designed.
It's a local church where all of these different influences that we're talking about, Scripture is honest about them, tells us about how they interplay, how they work, but doesn't leave us in the dark about how to engage and address these things.
The local churches, is it a perfect place? No, but it is an ideal place for people to be able to come to live out some of these complex realities and paths that we all come to the table with.
And Gunnar, what's your experience in that? Given your years of pastoral ministry, how would you speak to that?
I think when I was a pastor, I saw that... people in the church were both an incredible resource for one another.
and had the potential to be that, and also sometimes underestimated the potential that they had to bless others, because there might be a mentality that anything beyond the most basic interactions are above my pay grade.
And anything that spikes even a little bit, not even to an acute care need, a severe issue, but just something that's a little bit more complicated, I don't know how I would engage that.
There's certainly some that might provide answers that are generally helpful, but a little bit too reductionistic.
But I think broadly, I think my heart is just seeing the faith and the hope and the love in so many believers that I know can be an encouragement to others.
But it was always beautiful to see how someone who was going through something very difficult would talk about the impact of their life group, listening to them and praying for them and enjoying a meal together and how much a play date meant to them, how much a visit from a pastor or a church member when they were coming out of surgery meant to them and how much opportunity there was to build one another up.
Guys, can we talk for a moment about a question that we're trying to lean into in every single one of these distinctives? Because the second half of our mission is restoring counseling to the church and restoring counseling to the local church, to local bodies of worship.
believers, why does this distinctive matter for our local churches? Why does it matter for local church pastors and members to continue to grow as we continue to grow in understanding this world of influences?
I mean, I think because we are called to be one another's keeper, in a sense, we are called to love one another.
I think the expression or one expression of love is I seek to know this person, whether it's in a five-minute conversation during a break in the service or in the coffee hour after service or... you know, in a sit-down meal, I want to know this person as fully as I can.
And so, I think that That's really important for the body to be functioning well and in community and bearing one another's burdens.
How can we bear one another's burdens if we don't actually know what they are? And so I think that importance of...
Curiosity, taking the time to ask some questions, being quick to listen and slow to speak, James 1.19, I think, such an important characteristic for our church bodies.
I mean, for me, at least, Gunnar, when I think about the local church and how this distinctive hits the ground, I think the local church really is the ideal context where all of these different influences get talked about, get shared, get informed, become sanctified even.
When you think about the opportunity to come together as believers to have people inquire about some of the things Mike was just referencing, to be able to be vulnerable enough to be honest about some of the physical struggles or weaknesses, the church is an ideal place for that to happen.
Who else are you going to see on a regular basis? Who else are you most likely going to be living geographically close to and opening up your heart to? well those are people in your church it's people that you sit in your pews with every day and uh in a lot of the studies on addiction and literature and what are some ideal places for rehab and for people to overcome addiction a lot of times what they end up describing is a church at the end of describing a place where you come regularly where there's routines where you're treated with respect and you can be vulnerable where it's you know free you're not having to pay an arm and a leg and i think to myself I think what you're getting after is what God's already designed.
It's a local church where all of these different influences that we're talking about, Scripture is honest about them, tells us about how they interplay, how they work, but doesn't leave us in the dark about how to engage and address these things.
The local churches, is it a perfect place? No, but it is an ideal place for people to be able to come to live out some of these complex realities and paths that we all come to the table with.
And Gunnar, what's your experience in that? Given your years of pastoral ministry, how would you speak to that?
I think when I was a pastor, I saw that... people in the church were both an incredible resource for one another.
and had the potential to be that, and also sometimes underestimated the potential that they had to bless others, because there might be a mentality that anything beyond the most basic interactions are above my pay grade.
And anything that spikes even a little bit, not even to an acute care need, a severe issue, but just something that's a little bit more complicated, I don't know how I would engage that.
There's certainly some that might provide answers that are generally helpful, but a little bit too reductionistic.
But I think broadly, I think my heart is just seeing the faith and the hope and the love in so many believers that I know can be an encouragement to others.
But it was always beautiful to see how someone who was going through something very difficult would talk about the impact of their life group, listening to them and praying for them and enjoying a meal together and how much a play date meant to them, how much a visit from a pastor or a church member when they were coming out of surgery meant to them and how much opportunity there was to build one another up.
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