Sally Hayden "Hope is an Action."

[upbeat music] Sally, it is so lovely to have you in the Are We There Yet? studio.

Thanks so much for having me.

The book is brilliant.

Uh, this is your second book, This Is Also a Love Story: Searching for Good in a Divided World.

And people will know you, like, you are a war correspondent, an amazing journalist, award-winning.

You've reported and continued to report from, from some of the most dangerous places in the world.

So tell me about this book, which is essentially about love.

Um, tell me about it and, and where, I suppose, the original idea came from.

Um, yeah.

Thanks so much.

So I mean, people actually keep calling me a war correspondent.

I wouldn't say I'm a war correspondent, but, um, I have been reporting internationally since around 2013, 2014, and I've reported on a lot of different crises.

So not just war, but humanitarian disasters, you know, drought and, um, inequality, exploitation, migration, a lot of issues around human rights abuses.

And, um, yeah, so I started doing that, as I said, around 2013, 2014, and within a few years, I, uh, just became really sad, to be honest.

[laughs] So I'm sure you know.

Actually, I'd be interested in your thoughts on this-

Mm

... too, honestly, because, um, I think maybe when you're starting out, you kind of have these grand notions of both changing the world and also, like, you know, having adventures.

This is, like, a cool thing to do.

And actually, you realize very quickly that, like, the world is a very cruel and horrible place, and you see a lot of really terrible things that, you know, that change you, I guess.

And I think that I, yeah, very quickly started feeling very sad, I would say.

And, um, not that I didn't believe in the importance of journalism, but I realized, you know, that l- what, uh, yeah, just, just that, you know, these horrible things are happening, and there's not always a, a clear answer, or at least there's not always an answer that's actually coming very quickly.

And-

Mm

...