Oct 15, 2026 · 42 min · 10 segments
In this episode, we take a look at perspectives from the Church Fathers on what miracles show exactly. I hope this episode is beneficial to you!
And this is in his Apology, this is in chapter 22, and it reads as follows, quote, "...from dwelling in the air, their nearness to the stars, and their commerce with the clouds, they have means of knowing the preparatory processes," he's talking about demons here, "...going on in these upper regions.
Very kind too, no doubt, they are in regard to the healing of diseases." For, first of all, they make you ill.
Then, to get a miracle out of it, they command the application of remedies, either altogether new or contrary to those in use.
And straight away, withdrawing their hurtful influence, they are supposed to have wrought a cure.
So, Tertullian informs us that there are even sorts of healings, it seems, that the demonic can do.
Origen says the following, Now, in order to grant that there did exist a healing spirit, Aesculapius, who used to cure the bodies of men, I would say to those who are astonished at such an occurrence, that since the cure of bodies is a thing indifferent and a matter within the reach not merely of the good, but also of the bad, and as the foreknowledge of the future is also a thing indifferent for the possessor of foreknowledge does not necessarily manifest the possession of virtue you must show that they who practice healing or who foretell the future are in no respect virtuous but they will not be able to show that they are virtuous who practice the art of healing or who are gifted with foreknowledge seeing many who are not fit to live and are related to have been he are related to have been healed And these two persons whom, as leading improper lives, no wise physicians would wish to heal.
So again, he's affirming here the possibility of either demonic healings or of healings that don't really vindicate the particular person doing the healing.
But for now, I want us to just get a sense of the patristic reading of miracles and the supernatural.
Remember, they were steeped in a culture that very much believed this happened all the time around them.
So it's important for us to hear their voices fully before making judgments.
St. Cyprian of Carthage, in On the Vanity of Idols, writes the following, quote, "'These spirits, therefore, lurk beneath statues and consecrated images.' They inspire the breasts of their prophets with their influence, animate the fibers of entrails, direct the flight of birds, govern lots, and give efficacy to oracles.
They disturb men's lives, disquiet their sleep, and, creeping secretly into their bodies, terrify their minds, distort their limbs, impair their health, and provoke diseases in order to compel them to worship them.
Then, having been glutted with the smoke of altars and the sacrifices of cattle, they loosen what they had bound, and thus appear to have effected a cure.
St. John Chrysostom, in his Homily Against the Jews, this is Homily 8, section 5, writes the following, quote, Do you revolt to cure your body? And what excuse could we find? Certainly we must fear Christ more than Gehenna, and desire him more than a kingdom.
Even if we be sick, it is better to remain in ill health than to fall into impiety for the sake of a cure.
For even if a demon cures you, he has hurt more than he has helped.
He has helped the body, which a short time later will die altogether and rot away.
But he has hurt the soul, which will never die.
The demons promise cure of a limb and then dash the whole of the salvation into the sea.
Now, again, this is going to be very important.
We'll address how we can know Jesus' healings are not, in fact, demonic from this quote.
But again, I want us to just note the sort of scope of assessing supernatural actions from the fathers.
And this is in his Apology, this is in chapter 22, and it reads as follows, quote, "...from dwelling in the air, their nearness to the stars, and their commerce with the clouds, they have means of knowing the preparatory processes," he's talking about demons here, "...going on in these upper regions.
Very kind too, no doubt, they are in regard to the healing of diseases." For, first of all, they make you ill.
Then, to get a miracle out of it, they command the application of remedies, either altogether new or contrary to those in use.
And straight away, withdrawing their hurtful influence, they are supposed to have wrought a cure.
So, Tertullian informs us that there are even sorts of healings, it seems, that the demonic can do.
Origen says the following, Now, in order to grant that there did exist a healing spirit, Aesculapius, who used to cure the bodies of men, I would say to those who are astonished at such an occurrence, that since the cure of bodies is a thing indifferent and a matter within the reach not merely of the good, but also of the bad, and as the foreknowledge of the future is also a thing indifferent for the possessor of foreknowledge does not necessarily manifest the possession of virtue you must show that they who practice healing or who foretell the future are in no respect virtuous but they will not be able to show that they are virtuous who practice the art of healing or who are gifted with foreknowledge seeing many who are not fit to live and are related to have been he are related to have been healed And these two persons whom, as leading improper lives, no wise physicians would wish to heal.
So again, he's affirming here the possibility of either demonic healings or of healings that don't really vindicate the particular person doing the healing.
But for now, I want us to just get a sense of the patristic reading of miracles and the supernatural.
Remember, they were steeped in a culture that very much believed this happened all the time around them.
So it's important for us to hear their voices fully before making judgments.
St. Cyprian of Carthage, in On the Vanity of Idols, writes the following, quote, "'These spirits, therefore, lurk beneath statues and consecrated images.' They inspire the breasts of their prophets with their influence, animate the fibers of entrails, direct the flight of birds, govern lots, and give efficacy to oracles.
They disturb men's lives, disquiet their sleep, and, creeping secretly into their bodies, terrify their minds, distort their limbs, impair their health, and provoke diseases in order to compel them to worship them.
Then, having been glutted with the smoke of altars and the sacrifices of cattle, they loosen what they had bound, and thus appear to have effected a cure.
St. John Chrysostom, in his Homily Against the Jews, this is Homily 8, section 5, writes the following, quote, Do you revolt to cure your body? And what excuse could we find? Certainly we must fear Christ more than Gehenna, and desire him more than a kingdom.
Even if we be sick, it is better to remain in ill health than to fall into impiety for the sake of a cure.
For even if a demon cures you, he has hurt more than he has helped.
He has helped the body, which a short time later will die altogether and rot away.
But he has hurt the soul, which will never die.
The demons promise cure of a limb and then dash the whole of the salvation into the sea.
Now, again, this is going to be very important.
We'll address how we can know Jesus' healings are not, in fact, demonic from this quote.
But again, I want us to just note the sort of scope of assessing supernatural actions from the fathers.
The rest of this transcript — segmented and speaker-labeled, so you land on the exact moment something was said
Search every transcript — by keyword, by phrase, or by meaning, across every show Radar indexes
Trends — what is surging across podcasts, measured against its own baseline
Alerts — when a name you follow appears in a newly indexed episode
No account is needed to search Radar.