About the Kate O'Neill thing?

Yeah.

Oh, right.

Okay, sorry.

But before the Bloodline thing? Yeah.

And I didn't know about this Bloodline thing.

And when I first saw that then...

well we just it's weird we just you know Kit is a Ireland jersey now with no crest and no logo it just has a green t-shirt

He kind of referred to that and was critical of that was common sense.

Well, I was on Indosport with Ian Madigan, and I think he ran through about 10 candidates before he got to Rodgers.

And Mick Dawson went on off the ball, like a rare media appearance by Mick Dawson who ran Leinster for 20 years and poo-pooed the idea.

I don't think Brian O'Driscoll was too hot on it.

So I thought it was going to be like from early on, I thought it was a good move personally, but I didn't get the sense that Leinster were ever really going to go there.

And while there may have been some discussions, it was more likely that he would stay there.

And that's the reason what prompted the story on Friday was that it looks like he's in strong negotiations with La Rochelle now to sign a new deal that would take him to 2031 to try and complete this rebuild that he's doing and then see where his international options...

I don't know what your sense of that is, guys, but I feel like they were upset a little bit about

No, but I think this has been going on, I think this, like, this has been going on for a while.

while.I don't think anyone is in any doubt.

Like, I, I, I didn't say do the piece because the FAI have made approach two weeks ago or something.

This is a longstanding pursuit.

Um, but obviously the rules allow you to go to a certain point.

Like, it...

You can only do one transfer of allegiance- Sure ... between nations.

They got a primary school in 2024

They should have beaten Ireland that day by 20 points.

When they attacked that day, their attack was terrible.

Now, it was helped by...

Like, Ireland were defending.

Ireland scored against them with 13 men at one stage.

Ireland were down to 12 at one stage, certainly 13.

They scrambled very well.

But what were your thoughts watching?

Yeah

... and it'll get him into Matchday 23s, but it's that he can, he's nearly as good anywhere.

So he's as good at 12, uh, in his two b- better positions, but he's probably not better than any incumbent.

So, like, he's not gonna displace Stuart McCloskey, if McCloskey's obviously been training well after his hamstring.

So, and he's not gonna displace Hugo Keenan.

So do you pick him ahead of Ringrose? Ringrose has been excellent for Leinster recently off the bench.

Largely, uh, he's been carrying a bit of a knee, but Ringrose is such an important player for Ireland, the key leader in the group.

I've almost forgotten that he existed.

the reason

it's reactive is because none of them, Crowley aside, during this year's Six Nations, have grabbed their chance.

And Burnham was back through the Champions Cup run, but he got worse and worse as it went on and delivered his two worst performances at the biggest time.

Leo Cullen, I would have picked Frawley ahead of Prendergast based on form, but I think it was right to take Burnham out of the team after the final because I think he played... poorly in the semi-final and the final my read on the summer I don't have one I think the there is every chance that Farrell having I think encouraged Frawley to seek game time I don't think he actively said move to Connacht but I think he would have been in favour of that move and I think Johnny Sexton would have been as well and I think I think their encouragement of him to seek game time may have damaged that relationship between Leo Cullen and the IRFU because I think Leinster think, if you read between the lines of Cullen's comments after the Stormers game about everyone's trying to sign our players, I think that was about Frawley and the fact that they're losing him next season.

I think Farrell has wanted to pick Frawley before and obviously the New Zealand one didn't go well.

And he's kind of come back around to him.

And I think the big question is, if Prendergast delivers in a final against a team with 11 starting springboks, with ball carriers who can all cause him massive trouble, if he holds up head-to-head with Andre Pollard in Crowe Park, albeit a third full... that gives him the impetus to pick him because he's done well in the final.

But do you agree with Jackman this sense that you've never seen the mood as low amongst Irish fans? Is that grim out there? I wouldn't say never

win.

It wasn't as if they took their foot off the gas and said, you know, have your point.

It was really hard earned.

And like the football always, like even everyone's got, not everyone, but you know, many people will share the reservations that you have about the tournament.

And even I saw Uruguayans being searched before they went to the stadium last night.

And there's all, you know, things happen at this World Cup that, you know, we've never seen before.

And hopefully we'll never see again.

And it's someone that's just so likeable and that we can

Oh, really? I, I assumed they were gonna stay.

No, they've, they've, they've gone home, and they come back up next week.

So that's two long-haul flights in the legs, but they've always, obviously decided to put a premium on sleeping in their own beds for a couple days, seeing their families, all that sort of stuff.

And, like, the Lions stuck around Dublin for a month, and it didn't really do them any good when they came to that quarterfinal.

I expect a much better Bulls performance than, than the one they put out last year.

Um, I think they'll, like, that'll ...

Even though I, I think they were kinda at the end of the road with that coaching ticket that they had last year, they, uh, they'll be stung by the, being hammered by Leinster.

Um, y- do you think, uh, you think Leinster is a realistic option? I, I saw you saying that.

Yeah.

He's got a very ...

I think we're, we're quick to f- like, the, during the Lions last year when there was, like, 19 Irish players on the Lions, and then even during the Six Nations when things started to go bad, the English, um, media were very quick to kind of write Ireland off as a, as a force and kind of that's the end of a great team.

But there is strength within the Irish system, and he can see that, and I think he feels he can harness it.

Like, it's not gonna be easy.

There's a lot of very good players retiring in the next couple of years.

But, yeah, I don't think he sees that as hi- as his Holy Grail, as, as his North Star.

Mm.

You're moving the ball

ballReassy, Bielberry, they're having a crack, they're keeping the ball alive, they're getting in behind you, their forwards are getting into their game, and they're capitalizing and turning that opportunity into seven points.

It's funny because I agree with both.

I agree with Ian 100% on the endeavor you could show there.

And I'm not saying he's wrong at all.

But I still think, though, that Leinster don't play like Bordeaux.

Ireland don't play like France.

Like, what an unbelievable get it is for them.

So for Leinster, this is going to be a beautiful weight lifted after a stodgy stop-start, uh, season, or a fifth consecutive final and all the acrimony and all the, um, post-defeat debate about management and everything else that will go with it.

Yeah, there's not much in between, is there? There's, um ...

They're in a very strange place in that they're seven-point underdogs, and yet there's still a burden, I think, of those past finals that, that, that potentially weighs on them, uh, in terms of they, they feel like, you know, a lot of them are getting to the point where it's not quite now or never, but they know how hard it is to get back to this point every year.

They've managed the hard, you know, sorry, the first hard part by getting there in those y- the seasons that they did, and they got so close so many times.

It's not like they've ever been beaten out the gate in any of these games.

I know Saracens got away from them in 2019, but they were, they were on top in the first half of that game and had moments where they could have pulled clear.

So each of the finals has, has left some sort of scar tissue.

And, um, we'll write the narrative in retrospect as we tend to do, but it's gonna be one of their, one of those two stories about this season.

And when I'm looking at Munster now, I, I c- I know they are missing a couple of other players, to be fair, but God, the performance they turned in on Saturday was not good enough.

No, and, and when you look at the Munster players and you think about them, say, a couple of years ago when they were Ireland Under 20s, like, some of those players were the stars of their Ireland Under 20 teams, and they were, they were much higher profile players coming through than the Connacht equivalents who are out playing them now.

And the question for Munster is that what's happening to these players between the age of 20 when they look like real prospects to when they get into the first team? And I'm thinking of Tom O'Hern, who was, I think his form has dropped off a cliff.

I d- I'm looking at Brian Gleason, who was, has had his injuries this year, but, like, really should be the coming force for Munster, but it isn't happen-- He was okay off the bench, in fairness to him.

He came on and, uh, made an impact.

Um, but the, the, there's a real drop-off.

Munster are not getting enough out of players that on paper are very, very good players.

Yeah

It is.

Absolutely.

And, like, it's bubbling under.

Look at the comments, look at the responses to tweets, look at the, you know, if you go to a pub near the Aviva Stadium after a game, it's a topic of conversation amongst fans.

I don't get the sense it is as much amongst the Leinster hierarchy and, and those.

They're very comfortable with Leo Cullen there.

But at, at some stage, as you, you know, you're renewing your season tickets and you're trying to sell out big stadiums like the Aviva Stadium, and they're not selling out, that I think it's definitely gonna be a talking point if they don't get, um, this done.

The legacy of it, it just has diluted down, um, the product.

Yeah

... start of his, um, his coaching career.

He was forwards coach that year.

I think I- Ian is completely right to, to mention the parallels with this year because, um, that was the season ...

I had a bit of a, a set to with Ma- Matt O'Connor because I, I was probably continually s- he asked, sorry, continuously asking him about Leinster's form.

And we were in UCD one day, he was sitting beside Jamie Heaslip, and he pushed back.

He goes, "What do you ...

Yeah.

This is an important board.

Munster would have a committee that is voted, a voted committee, represents all of the, the clubs, and it's the kind of steering group traditionally of the Munster branch.

But when professionalism came in, they, they recognized they needed a, a leaner board that has more expertise, that provides oversight on the professional game.

So the, the...

I'm not sure who did it first.

I think it was probably the IRFU set up a professional games board, and it is the bridge between the amateur hou- side of the house and the professional side of the house.

And it would largely include some kind of well-qualified or respected committee menRepresentatives from the professional organization, as in Ian Flanagan, Ian Costello, and Clayton McMillan, and then former players who have expertise to give.

You mentioned the IRFU then.

But then there was kind of signs in the second half that when they click, and as they maybe build a little more cohesion and form in the next couple of weeks before Toulon and then potentially later in the season, that there is a team there and players there that can raise their level potentially as well.

The f- the funny thing about Leinster at the moment is there's a lot of players playing very well individually, but the team isn't functioning as a team as well as it should.

I thought the second half was very good.

Um, it's as, probably as good as Leinster se- uh, have performed all season, and certainly in terms of their attack.

Um, but the first half, like, if they turn-- If they show up and give that 40 minutes again this season, that's it for them.

I, I don't think they can do that against-- I know Toulon are not brilliant, but they're a much better team.

They're going up the levels.

But when you can't even go get those little bits right, v- very hard to live with a team like England.

Yeah

...

the professional era.

They-- A lot of their admin is based in Cork, where they've opened their, a state-of-the-art center of excellence only just a couple of months ago.

Ian Flanagan o-op-opened that.

I, I um, I was talking to Keane about, uh, about kinda the, their position then, and I kind of addressed the Conor Murray quotes at, at that time, where he talk- accused the organization of penny pinching, of making dud signings and having coaching churn.

They-- We thought this issue would be settled when they opened up their base, their high-performance center in Limerick.

Mm.

Yeah.

Uh, which is, um, clinical in the extreme.

I mean, you'd like a few more entries into the 22 was a, a thought, but, uh, four tries from four entries.

But they were so comfortable without the ball as well.

Uh, I know, like, they made Scotland go through those 20 phases.

I think one thing that's been so impressive, even going back to the South Africa game in November, their goal line defense has become really, really, um...

Like, they're so hard to break on the line.

So I mean, it's not helpful for Crowley if he goes out against Australia, New Zealand, doesn't go well, and he's just out of the team again.

Can't, can't beat them, join them.

I recently bought a new pair of running shoes as I'm backing on my Dublin Marathon training.

Perhaps I should invest in a pair of, mm, what are they called? Mayflys?

You know, as much as, is it 20% sometimes? It, it depends on the distance, obviously.

I don't, I still don't understand.

Now maybe my brain is too small, but, like, how did...

How can a shoe, unless there's literally a motor in it, account for such a significant difference?

It's funny, against, against Ireland, we were looking at that kind of combination and that dynamism and saying, "My God, this is the future."

I never, I never fully bought into it.

It worked against Ireland because Ireland were terrible, and Ireland didn't win any collisions, didn't win any aerial battles.

Scotland won their battles, and suddenly not having that, the, the go-to of give Miafou the ball and just run straight worked against them.

And once he came on, him and Mevaka were throwing offloads.

They didn't throw an offload for the first half an hour of the game.

Their discipline crumbled.

Will it be the Twickenham team?

Yeah

... what Ireland had produced as well.

So they'd, they adapted to some degreeYeah, like the attacking stuff I, I, I'd be critical of to some degree bec- 'cause of the failure to-- that, look, it wasn't working, so you need to find another way.

But to me, it's all about the, the, the field position stuff and, and like that traditionally would fall on the half-backs and, um, particularly Crowley.

And I think that was kinda the performance from Crowley that was why we had this out-half debate in the first place, that why Ireland have struggled to trust him in, in, in games.

And we saw, you know, he did well in Twickenham.

I don't think he was given an awful lot of responsibility in Twickenham.

Brilliant.

Yeah

... what Ireland had produced as well.

So they'd, they adapted to some degreeYeah, like the attacking stuff I, I, I'd be critical of to some degree bec- 'cause of the failure to-- that, look, it wasn't working, so you need to find another way.

But to me, it's all about the, the, the field position stuff and, um, like that traditionally would fall on the half-backs and, um, particularly Crowley.

And I think that was kinda the performance from Crowley that was why we had this out-half debate in the first place, that why Ireland have struggled to trust him in, in, in games.

And we saw, you know, he did well in Twickenham.

I don't think he was given an awful lot of responsibility in Twickenham.

Brilliant.

It's kind of as big a collapse as you tend to see of an average year in the PGA Tour.

Oh yeah, it was excruciating.

Even if you were watching that casually and Shane Lowry was, you know...

Austin Smotherman.

Austin Smotherman.

You would genuinely ache, I think, for somebody that has to go through that.

You can just tell how lonely a place it is with the world kind of caving in around you.

I think it

And, like, I'm, I'm, I don't, I get, I get the sense from you, you think Rog is actually, like, or maybe an unlikely successor if Farrell was to, to leave.

Oh, like, I, I think, look, there's gonna be a list of good coaches available whenever, i- if Farrell does choose to walk away.

And, and to my mind, Ronan O'Gara is absolutely number one on that list, and should be the first call that David Humphreys makes if he hasn't already made that co- that call.

Because I would presume that David Humphreys is, is, is ...

Sorry, I, I, I would be aware of David Humphreys trying to keep in touch with Irish coaches abroad to make, to see what their, their movements are, what their plans are.

And I pre- like, you would have to be in that role future-proofing for the, the eventuality that Farrell's gonna leave one day.

And Ro- Ronan O'Gara, given what he's achieved as a coach, where he's gone and coached, the things that he's accumulated, and even the fact that he's going through a sticky patch at the moment, that's all experience that he could put into the job.

But if they announced Rog, who's kind of working away somewhere else, it wouldn't be quite as, you know, I suppose, divisive or distracting maybe.

Speed of ball I think is

crucial to that as well.

Their rucking was so much better and more accurate than it has been in In the kind of last year, really, maybe apart from that Australia game, they got that right.

And when they get that right, everyone looks better.

Their alignment was good.

It wasn't perfect, but I think it was much better than it had been.

And I think the time they're spending together and camp playing this way is benefiting them because they're feeling more comfortable with the Ireland way as they go.

Talk to us about the energy and the performances of some of these guys that people were very worried about.