What do you think, uh, is, what, what the mood, what's the mood that you've gauged the last couple weeks, and, and where do you think they're at?

I think the, the mood within the camp is very different to what it is outside it, and by outside I mean supporters, people who I'd be chatting to.

I think in that regard, I think Eddie is spot on.

I think expectations from outside the camp are, yeah, pretty much as low as they've ever been.

If you're talking about, you know, what would a good season look like for Munster, I know Clayton McMillan told us last week that it would be getting a home URC quarterfinal, which would obviously be, mean finishing in the top four.

I think that would be a remarkable achievement.

I think Munster finishing in the top eight would be a pretty good achievement.

Um, it's a different managerial challenge for Lancaster and for his team this year, isn't it?

Do you, like with everything in Irish rugbys, do you start with a pillar of Leinster and work everything else away from there? [laughs]

Uh, yes, and not much has changed, um, in that regard.

Um, but it is going to be a- after this, a big change in Leinster.

So I guess, first of all to, to point out is that Leinster are returning to the RDS, uh, which is now known as the Aviva Arena.

Um, listeners will be familiar.

It's their home ground.

They've been out of there for the last two years, and they've been playing at the Aviva Stadium, which has been a tough sell.

So as much as we talk about the playoffs, it's really this cluster of sides that, that have been competing for three spots, and that Connacht and Ulster, just to finish with Ireland, will be, um, among those.

I don't know if you have anything else.

Yeah, I would agree with you, Will.

I feel like we've been waiting for this particular crop of Munster players to really sort of push through.

We were definitely hoping to see more of it last year.

I think you're right to highlight a guy like Edwin Adogbo.

I saw Clayton McMillan saying that he has trimmed down, I think he said 15 kilos, which is an awful amount.

And I saw pictures of Adogbo last week over at the Champions Cup launch.

If I was a Connacht supporter reading those quotes, I would be very excited for Friday week against the Stormers in Galway.

Yeah.

And it was a summer that I think they needed, like, some feel-good, you know, good news.

The Crowley thing is, is very concerning, obviously from, first of all, from Crowley's point of view because from what you hear, there's no guarantee that he'll be back in January.

It's still very, very uncertain.

I think they've done well to actually get to the bottom of the injury because I, I, I know Munster weren't playing silly buggers by coming out and saying that.

They actually found it extremely difficult to diagnose what the injury-- I think he was going for scans.

It wasn't showing up.

These games lived up to the hype, I suppose.

What was your verdict on what unfolded?

Yeah, I think they were.

Um, I think you summed it up in the intro that, like, they had a shot at history, but they never really looked like, um, pulling it off, unfortunately.

Um, a lot of uncharacteristic mistakes, like some of the handling, uh, which Ireland obviously pride themselves on.

And the conditions were perfect, like I said, were just so sloppy.

I thought the discipline, um, in both 22s was just appalling.

I think the p- final penalty count finished at nine apiece, but it was the, it was the manner of the penalties that Ireland were giving away.

And the mitigation they applied didn't seem like a good enough excuse.

And even the way Ireland lost in Chicago, they, like, Ireland kind of had the better of the first maybe 50 minutes or so, and then the game breakers really came to the fore, and they couldn't really live with them as it went on.

Yeah, I suppose their big calls, Will, were, um, on the wing, as you mentioned, Josh Morby gets the nod ahead of Caleb Clarke, and he was excellent, as you've outlined, on his debut last weekend.

So he looks like a really exciting player.

Uh, I don't think Billy Proctor has really convinced a lot of Kiwis on the ground here, so I think it makes sense that Quinn Tupaea, uh, came back in at 13.

And look, Jordie Barrett, I mean, like, let's just talk about him for a minute.

The, Dave Rennie was saying at the leaders meeting that they had on Sunday night that Jordie Barrett was pretty much the one, uh, leading that in terms of the insight that he has to the Ireland players.

I've heard on the ground over here as well that Jordie Barrett is almost the de facto attack coach as well.

So I'm very interested to see how they match up with the All Blacks with that factor now removed, or that excuse now removed.

Give us your read on what's going on.

Well, the way he put it today, Joe, when we asked him about it, was that Sam Prendergast has earned the right, um, quote-unquote, and I guess he probably has when you look at the form that he put together in Leinster's URC run, and particularly in the final, which, a bit like last year, actually, Sam Prendergast delivered his best performance of the season in the URC final.

Um, that is, I thought he was outstanding against the Bulls.

He did, he did all of the things that we know he can do with ball in hand in terms of, um, running the play.

Obviously, Ian will be much better, um, suited to, to talk about that.

But he did all the things he did well, but what I really liked was that he, he put himself about.

He chased back.

Yeah.

But just as a concept, as a tournament, are you excited about it? Or are you a little apprehensive about what this means?

No, I'm definitely excited, Will.

I do like, and I did like the old school nature of tours.

I would have been on the tour in 22 when Ireland went down to New Zealand and obviously won for the first time.

And that was amazing in itself, but I'm excited to see what the nation's championship bring.

I mean, there's a lot of, you know, models thrown at rugby for friendlies and this and that, but it actually means that every game is competitive now in the summer and in November.

So I'm certainly open-minded to it.

I'm actually fascinated to see how Andy Farrell goes about picking this part of the team.

It looks like he's got his confidence back.

His tackling.

Like, he made some absolutely brilliant tackles and, like, he did the same in last year's URC final.

He was absolutely outstanding.

Now, unfortunately for him, he wasn't able to kick on, whereas now he has an opportunity.

Like, this was an Ireland audition for him tonight.

Like, the number 10 jersey is up for grabs with Jack Crowley's unfortunate injury, and that kind of performance is exactly what Andy Farrell will be looking for.

World Cup winners all over the place?

Is there any chance here that Farrell, they kind of need to revisit the Frawley thing and say... you're the kind of least damaged one almost of the last month to six, seven weeks.

In you go.

How's this going to play out? Well, he won't be shy in doing that if he feels that that's the best way to go because we've seen it over the years throughout Andy Farrell's tenure that he's well able to pick and happy to pick players who aren't necessarily first choice for their province.

I think we have to remember that Andy Farrell was the one initially who felt Sam Prendergast was ready.

Like he believes in him hugely.

And I wonder, I don't know, But I wonder if Andy Farrell had a word with Leo Cullen after the Champions Cup final and said when they knew the writing was on the wall for Jack Crowley that he was right up against it to make the tour that we got to play Sam Prendergast back into a bit of form here.

And he played really well in the quarterfinal against the Lions, but had a tricky day against the Stormers last time out.

Wow.

Mm.

And I think that they would, they would probably like to see him have more control.

And look, he, Jacques Nienaber, in terms of Eddie just outlined there, not feeling the love, he very much put that on you and the media as a whole, and the supporters.

And like, there is no doubt that there is a large cohort of supporters who just don't like this way of playing.

Like Eddie has outlined, it hasn't delivered the Champions Cup in the three seasons that he's been here.

And I think if it had, supporters would certainly put up with Leinster playing not as attractive rugby as they're used to.

Whereas when it's still not winning the ultimate prize, which is the Champions Cup, that means frustrations grow.

So they gotta, this has to be rock bottom, doesn't it?

Maybe I'm overthinking the heat element, but the bench I think, uh, to your point, will be vital.

Yeah, no, you're definitely not, um, overplaying the importance of the bench.

And interestingly, we've just had confirmation as well that, um, there may be water breaks, um, in the game tomorrow, depending if, I think they, they work off some sort of heat index.

I'm not sure of the exact term, but if it hits a certain level, then there'll be water breaks.

Now, they're pretty, I think, confident that it, it may not hit that, so if it doesn't hit it, there will be no water breaks.

But that is something to watch out for, uh, as well.

Like, you're right, Will.

Yeah

Um, 26-7, so, uh, impressive, worthy, comfortable winners, everything the scoreline suggests?

Absolutely, yeah.

Um, if-- They, they took a while to get the bonus point, and if they hadn't, it would've been a travesty from a Connacht point of view because they were just head and shoulders, uh, above them.

And yeah, like, the-- I was down in Galway twice last week, Joe, for their press day on the Tuesday.

Chatted to Denis Buckley, who's played his last game for Connacht, and was at the game on Saturday.

And, like, to say the vibes are good down there, even on the Tuesday, I was sitting in the reception of the, of the high performance center, and there was people coming in renewing their season tickets, like, genuinely while I was sitting there.

Uh, I saw Connacht have said that over 91% of their season tickets for next season have been sold.

you-So Lancaster does both sides of the ball

And there's so much good in that period, and yet still they find themselves in, in, in this squeaky bum time at the end.

Like, I, I think the uncomfortable truth about it is a better team would've beaten Leinster today because there were vulnerabilities that were there.

And I agree with you.

I think Tulu- Toulon were, were very disappointing on the whole.

Like, you look at how well they played, and look, Leo Cullen made this point, um, afterwards, and it's spot on.

When the game looks like it's dead and buried from a Toulon perspective, they threw caution to the wind.

But you just kinda got the sense from a Toulon perspective that if they had been a bit more adventurous ...

Yeah, yeah.

But what were your thoughts on that Munster performance?

Big deep breath.

Um, yeah, like I don't think the final score was a fair reflection on how much better Exeter were, and we can give Munster credit for winning the second half 21-0 and all that.

And you know what? I was so glad and relieved that neither Tadhg Beirne or Clayt McMillan afterwards even attempted to reach for that.

Clayt McMillan actually said, "It's the 31-0 that we need to focus on here, not the 31-21." 'Cause I think a lot of head coaches would've been like, you know, looking for moral victories, and I think there's been too much of that.

Maybe even there was an element of it the previous week against the Bulls when they got two losing bonus points.

Um, yeah, you, you mentioned the tactics, Will, in terms of playing, um, playing into the wind.

It, it's, it's been a tough opening whatever eight months it's been.

What was your perspective on that?

Yeah, I think if you looked at the scoreline, you'd think that, oh, Leinster are back, and this is another one of their handy enough victories, but it actually wasn't, um, at all.

And I think even in the grand scheme of things, possibly Leo Cullen might welcome that because even though the Scarlets have been pretty poor, Will, this season, their attack actually opened up Leinster on a good few occasions.

Obviously, as I say, scored the three tries, but there was another couple of, uh, moments, I think back to Tommy O'Brien's try-saving tackle at the end to deny them a bonus point.

So they got a really tough run out, probably tougher than a lot of people, certainly I, was expecting.

Um, Leinster were a bit of, I thought, the architects of their own problems in that half an hour.

Their discipline was shocking, and it's been, it's been a problem for a while, even when the, the big players have been away.

Oh, definitely.

[laughs]

Um, yeah, the vibes aren't great at the moment in Munster.

And I'm sure Munster fans won't wanna hear this, 'cause they've heard it all before.

But, um, yeah, I suppose to start with the story that I had, um, Alex Codling, who was Munster's forwards coach, he looks after the lineout, was unable to travel to South Africa due to illness.

And my understanding is that Sean Cronin, who is Munster's scrum coach, also didn't travel to South Africa.

Now, my understanding is that when Munster announced that Sean Cronin was coming on board as scrum coach, it's actually a part-time role because he's a ...

His full-time job is with, as a provincial talent coach.

No, no

To what extent do you see this now as a real live game? What are your, your overarching thoughts on even who you'd make favorites?

I think we know what to expect from Scotland, and Mads has just outlined it there in, in terms of their attack.

Like, that's nothing new.

Their attack has been excellent for the last couple of years, and if anything, it's gotten better because I think Finn Russell is playing the rugby of his career.

I think the two centers have been outstanding.

But for me, the biggest thing I took from the, the French game, in a way, was how much their pack stood up to France and did a number on them.

Because over however many years, especially against Ireland, that has been their Achilles heel.

Right.

Yeah.

Away from home, definitely, yeah.

The, the tired old cliché, but, you know, just when you sort of thought that France might have shaken that, that sort of tag off, and that w- that was always my fear with them in terms of going for this Grand Slam.

I did think they were a Grand Slam-winning team, but they just took their eye off the ball, and I think, I think they fell in love with themselves a little bit.

I, um, I think Luke is spot on.

They played into Scotland's hands, and there's a lesson in this from an Irish point of view for this weekend.

And I think, like, Luke is right to praise the Scottish backline, and we know what they're capable of when they get good, clean ball.

Like, that, that was actually-- Yeah, that was very disappointing as well actually in my opinion.

I think that O'Toole experiment is worth sticking with.

Yeah, I think it was, like, the replacement props who came off the bench didn't quite get to the pitch of it.

Um, Michael Milne is an excellent player around the field, but I think his Achilles heel, like, has been his scrummaging, and I think that was partly one of the reasons why, uh, Leinster not happy to see him go to, to Munster.

But I think it's one of the reasons why he did leave.

They didn't quite trust his scrummaging in the, in the very big games.

And I think you can-- Thomas Clarkson has a bit about that himself.

I think he's got quite a bit of a journey to go on.

Overall, yeah.

I think that O'Toole experiment is worth sticking with.

Yeah, I think it was, like the replacement props who came off the bench didn't quite get to the pitch of it.

Um, Michael Milne is an excellent player around the field, but I think his Achilles heel, like, has been his scrummaging, and I think that was partly one of the reasons why, uh, Leinster not happy to see him go to, to Munster.

But I think it's one of the reasons why he did leave.

They didn't quite trust his scrummaging in the, in the very big games.

And I think you can-- Thomas Clarkson has a bit about that himself.

I think he's got quite a bit of a journey to go on.

Overall, yeah.

But what is your read on that?

Frawley did very well off the bench, um, against England, albeit, uh, it wasn't at ten.

He played-- I think he came actually on at thirteen.

Um, and he does offer you that versatility, which Farrell clearly values.

Um, look, he's a guy who's obviously desperate for game time in the number ten position.

That's why he's moving to Connacht next season.

I was a bit surprised that Sam Prendergast wasn't sent back to Leinster last week to get some game time.

Where, where, like, he made, like, some atrocious reads at Murrayfield.

Full of moments

... packed full of, like, key moments.

And you know what? Like, and I said it to you guys, um, on halftime that when England got over for the try, you know, it, that, that they probably deserved on, on the balance of play, and Ireland were unlucky just not to be able to, to hold them out.

But, like, that did sort of change the complexion of I would imagine Steve Borthwick's halftime team talk.

And I imagine England still probably got a rocket at halftime.

But on the flip side, you can imagine what An- Andy Farrell was saying in the Ireland dressing room, that we have to get out early in the second half and score first.

And I thought this has been something that I've been critical of this Ireland team over the last year or so, is that when they make a mistake, they compound it by backing it up with another.

Massive, yeah.

Obviously, it's been such a negative few weeks and after last weekend and all the rest, you know, so how do you think he went today?

I thought he was excellent.

You know, when we were chatting in our video yesterday at the captain's run, you know, I think you asked us what did we want to see from Jack Crowley? And certainly from my point of view, it was to fit into the system and do what is asked of him.

Don't try and be a hero because I think Jack Crowley's game-breaking moments will always be within him.

It's just about playing to the game plan that Andy Farrell has set out.

And I thought he did that absolutely brilliantly.

He kicked really well, missed the long-range penalty, which was probably just right on the edge of his radar.

We

Him being dropped is a bigger thing than when Crowley is dropped almost because this shows they felt they had no option.

Yeah, and I think Eddie's right in terms of Andy Farrell trying to control the narrative.

I had similar thoughts myself when he came out about the keyboard warriors after the game.

I'm glad you mentioned Johnny Sexton because I was going to bring that up as well.

Look, it might have been chance because they tend to rotate the assistant coaches in terms of who does media, but I thought it was quite telling that it was Johnny Sexton who was up this week.

And he actually, as far as I remember, Joe, because I was there, he said four out-halves, not just two, that they want to share the game time with four out-halves, that this isn't just a two-horse race.

And Eddie has just rattled off the stats there.

He could, and I think he's kind