What came first, the diet or the binge?

This episode is for you if **perfectionism, disordered eating, or a never-ending exhaustion from managing your life** feels familiar. From Dr Clarissa Pinkola Estés' *Women Who Run With the Wolves*, we trace the story of an orphan whose handmade red shoes — her own resourcefulness, her own creative impulse — get burned by the old woman who takes her in. What happens to the young girl once that connection to herself is gone? Obsession, susceptibility, a rebellion that never finds its legs... We talk about what Stacy's research revealed about the real order of operations in binge/purge cycles, Jung's concept of the *"provisional life,"* and why having **sane mirrors** around you — people who reflect back what's actually there — matters more than the 'tools' on offer. **Kathleen Nora Bower** is a quantum seamstress and shadow alchemist, curator of global online summits, and course manager for the Global School of Quantum Evolution. **Stacy Dicker, PhD** is a clinical depth psychologist with 20+ years of experience working with eating disorders, relational trauma, and Jungian psychology. This conversation follows on from **The Antidote**, a three-part series devoted to liberating us (women) from the pathologization of our bodies. Timestamps 00:00 – Who this episode is for 02:11 – Why we're revisiting The Antidote 04:16 – The Red Shoes, from *Women Who Run With the Wolves* 09:00 – The story, told in full 13:00 – "She is off in La La Land" — rebellion without direction 27:00 – The dissertation study: 26 women, one answer 34:00 – Sane mirrors and the free-range egg experiment 41:00 – Domestication and the wild woman 45:00 – The provisional life (Jung) 56:00 – Coming into relationship with the friction of life 58:00 – What's next: the Antidote groundswell Connect & Work With Vive 📩 **My emails** — Love from the inside, direct to you [https://viveandco.kit.com/get-emails](%3Ca%20href=)">viveandco.kit.com/get-emails 👉 **For 1:1 sessions** [https://www.viveandco.com/workwithme](%3Ca%20href=)">viveandco.com/workwithme IG: **@vive\_and\_co** About Kathleen **Kathleen Nora Bower** — quantum seamstress, shadow alchemist, curator of global online summits, and course manager for the Global School of Quantum Evolution. 🔗 [https://www.kathleennorabower.com/](%3Ca%20href=)">kathleennorabower.com About Stacy **Stacy Dicker, PhD** — clinical depth psychologist with 20+ years working with eating disorders, relational trauma, and Jungian psychology. 🔗 [https://stacydickerphd.com/](%3Ca%20href=)">stacydickerphd.com The Antidote This conversation follows on from **The Antidote**, our three-part series exploring the pathologization of women's bodies. 🔗 [https://www.metamorphosis-global-summit.com/the-antidote](%3Ca%20href=)">The Antidote Referenced in this episode 📖 *Women Who Run With the Wolves* by Clarissa Pinkola Estés **🌙 Poems read by Stacy** Hollie McNish — *Pass Times* Ella Hicks — *Untitled*