Alberta referendum, FSIN dispute, Premier's stance on denialism raises ire

Uh, Niigaan, we'll start with you, as you have a column out on this, uh, Manitoba Premier Wab Kinew garnering a lot of attention for his stance, of which he's now doubled down on, that, uh, residential schools should not be a denialism, should not be considered a crime.

Your thoughts?

Well, in my column, I point out that, uh, I actually agree with Premier Kinew.

Education is a significant part of dealing with the issue of denialism.

Um, but the problem, as countries like Germany have found out, that you can't reason with the unreasonable.

Uh, you can't reason with individuals who are profiting personally off of misinformation.

And particularly, uh, as a national kind of movement, you have to have a concerted effort across several institutions all at once.

Now, criminalization may or may not be the way to go ahead with this, but that's the way, uh, Germany, and subsequently 18 countries, have chosen to deal with the issue of Holocaust denialism, Canada being one of those.

And, uh, the fact is, A, if Canada's going to choose to protect one group, it needs to protect particularly the group that's been disenfranchised the most in this country.

But also, if we're going to come up with another way to do it, I don't think education alone can do it.

I think the premier, uh, uh, while I think, you know, his long history of supporting residential school survivors, well-known.

He's an honorary witness.

He's even confronted, rather forcefully, ministers in the past.

Uh, education just simply won't be enough.

Will criminalization be the answer? Well, time will tell.

Uh, Jennifer, this is a similar argument that Federal Indigenous Services Minister Mandy Galmasi has been making, that education is the way to combat denialism.

Uh, sounds helpful down the road, but does that do anything for the discourse and things that have been happening recently?

Well, I think we're, we're moving beyond just having the conversation about education now, especially when we see what we saw in Kamloops, um, you know, before Truth and Reconciliation Day, is I don't think that's moving, um, into a space that's healthy or that we should allow to continue, especially with the intimidation, and let's just be realistic, that's what, that's what that was.

But I think that, you know, education is extremely important.

I was just, um, talking about this last week, that I went to the book launch of Jody Wilson-Raybould's new book, The In-Between Leader, and her co-author, uh, Roshan Danesh, was talking about how when you're in th- when you're in a dark room or you're in darkness, m- more darkness doesn't get rid of the darkness.

You need light.

And I think in th- this type of space is that education is very important, and we need that light.

We need to stick together.

We need to continue being resilient.

We need to tell the stories.

Uh, Niigaan, we'll start with you, as you have a column out on this, uh, Manitoba Premier Wab Kinew garnering a lot of attention for his stance, of which he's now doubled down on, that, uh, residential schools should not be a denialism, should not be considered a crime.

Your thoughts?

Well, in my column, I point out that, uh, I actually agree with Premier Kinew.

Education is a significant part of dealing with the issue of denialism.

Um, but the problem, as countries like Germany have found out, that you can't reason with the unreasonable.

Uh, you can't reason with individuals who are profiting personally off of misinformation.

And particularly, uh, as a national kind of movement, you have to have a concerted effort across several institutions all at once.

Now, criminalization may or may not be the way to go ahead with this, but that's the way, uh, Germany, and subsequently 18 countries, have chosen to deal with the issue of Holocaust denialism, Canada being one of those.

And, uh, the fact is, A, if Canada's going to choose to protect one group, it needs to protect particularly the group that's been disenfranchised the most in this country.

But also, if we're going to come up with another way to do it, I don't think education alone can do it.

I think the premier, uh, uh, while I think, you know, his long history of supporting residential school survivors, well-known.

He's an honorary witness.

He's even confronted, rather forcefully, ministers in the past.

Uh, education just simply won't be enough.

Will criminalization be the answer? Well, time will tell.

Uh, Jennifer, this is a similar argument that Federal Indigenous Services Minister Mandy Galmasi has been making, that education is the way to combat denialism.

Uh, sounds helpful down the road, but does that do anything for the discourse and things that have been happening recently?

Well, I think we're, we're moving beyond just having the conversation about education now, especially when we see what we saw in Kamloops, um, you know, before Truth and Reconciliation Day, is I don't think that's moving, um, into a space that's healthy or that we should allow to continue, especially with the intimidation, and let's just be realistic, that's what, that's what that was.

But I think that, you know, education is extremely important.

I was just, um, talking about this last week, that I went to the book launch of Jody Wilson-Raybould's new book, The In-Between Leader, and her co-author, uh, Roshan Danesh, was talking about how when you're in th- when you're in a dark room or you're in darkness, m- more darkness doesn't get rid of the darkness.

You need light.

And I think in th- this type of space is that education is very important, and we need that light.

We need to stick together.

We need to continue being resilient.

We need to tell the stories.