Jun 18, 2026 · 20 min · 13 segments
In 2026, prices of oil, gold, wheat, beef, and other commodities hit all-time highs, fueled by the inflationary effects of the Iran war. But one global good has plummeted - cocoa. In the last…
Ted GeorgeGuest
Doga SönmezHost
I wanted to kick off by asking you, so when we talk about ESG, we always talk about the environment and biodiversity, climate change, things like that.
So I wanted to ask, how does the S in ESG contribute to unsustainable production, especially in emerging markets like in West Africa?
Well, you're so right, the S in ESG is often overlooked, and I think part of the reason is because the environmental concerns are so huge, particularly if you're thinking of, uh, carbon emissions.
As soon as you have agriculture, you're chopping down forests, you're massively increasing emissions, and also the ability of the planet to suck them up, uh, through the trees.
But also there's huge issues to do with climate change as well, and we're seeing this affecting all of the agri sector.
Given that, it makes sense there's been so much focus on this, but of course it's overlooked the most important part of the supply chain or the value chain, which is the people.
Agriculture still employs the majority of the population in emerging markets, even when they do have these huge cities.
And so, you know, agri business is everyone's business and the social impact is critical.
And I think it's so important for sustainable production because the simple point is that the root cause of all unsustainable activity is poverty.
If a farmer cannot get the inputs, cannot get the support he needs, he's gonna chop down forests to try and produce more cocoa.
So a lot of these unsustainable things come from the fact that there's just no other choice economically.
And so I think the important thing is recognizing the hundreds of millions of people in the supply chain, the multiple SMEs, making sure that they're visible, and therefore trying to get a good socioeconomic impact, that will support sustainability on the environmental front.
How do you think not upholding social sustainability standards just affects the supply chain in general? Does it disrupt the supply chain?
Well, I think the point is it's just very often it's to do with people trying to make a fast buck.
If you do chop down forests, you know you can get the land straight away, you can actually do two or three crops in a row, but then the soil is exhausted and you've got to move on.
So currently when it's unsustainable, you have a small group of people who are making a killing, if you like, and then there's a lot of other people who deal with the aftereffects and the consequences.
So I think basically it's sustain- when we talk about sustainable production, it's not just that it's ethically sustainable or socially or environmentally, it's financially stable as well.
And that's actually, weirdly enough, what is driving the unsustainable activity in the first place.
Well, yeah, I think the whole point is you've got to have a proper economic incentive.
I wanted to kick off by asking you, so when we talk about ESG, we always talk about the environment and biodiversity, climate change, things like that.
So I wanted to ask, how does the S in ESG contribute to unsustainable production, especially in emerging markets like in West Africa?
Well, you're so right, the S in ESG is often overlooked, and I think part of the reason is because the environmental concerns are so huge, particularly if you're thinking of, uh, carbon emissions.
As soon as you have agriculture, you're chopping down forests, you're massively increasing emissions, and also the ability of the planet to suck them up, uh, through the trees.
But also there's huge issues to do with climate change as well, and we're seeing this affecting all of the agri sector.
Given that, it makes sense there's been so much focus on this, but of course it's overlooked the most important part of the supply chain or the value chain, which is the people.
Agriculture still employs the majority of the population in emerging markets, even when they do have these huge cities.
And so, you know, agri business is everyone's business and the social impact is critical.
And I think it's so important for sustainable production because the simple point is that the root cause of all unsustainable activity is poverty.
If a farmer cannot get the inputs, cannot get the support he needs, he's gonna chop down forests to try and produce more cocoa.
So a lot of these unsustainable things come from the fact that there's just no other choice economically.
And so I think the important thing is recognizing the hundreds of millions of people in the supply chain, the multiple SMEs, making sure that they're visible, and therefore trying to get a good socioeconomic impact, that will support sustainability on the environmental front.
How do you think not upholding social sustainability standards just affects the supply chain in general? Does it disrupt the supply chain?
Well, I think the point is it's just very often it's to do with people trying to make a fast buck.
If you do chop down forests, you know you can get the land straight away, you can actually do two or three crops in a row, but then the soil is exhausted and you've got to move on.
So currently when it's unsustainable, you have a small group of people who are making a killing, if you like, and then there's a lot of other people who deal with the aftereffects and the consequences.
So I think basically it's sustain- when we talk about sustainable production, it's not just that it's ethically sustainable or socially or environmentally, it's financially stable as well.
And that's actually, weirdly enough, what is driving the unsustainable activity in the first place.
Well, yeah, I think the whole point is you've got to have a proper economic incentive.
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