Jul 6, 2026 · 44 min · 9 segments
China is expanding its nuclear forces but what is actually driving that change? In this episode of The Nuclear Table, I sit down with Dr Tong Zhao, Senior Fellow in the Nuclear Policy Program at the…
Tong ZhaoGuestIan Fleming ZhouHostBefore we get into U.S.-China strategic stability, I would like to start with North Korea.
At the same time, you have argued that Beijing's thinking on North Korea has evolved in important ways over the past few years.
How would you characterize China's current approach to North Korea and its nuclear program?

The issue of denuclearization was not mentioned in either party's readout of the meeting.

So it looks like China now tries to prioritize improving bilateral relations with North Korea over the long-term issue of nuclear non-proliferation.

And under this circumstance, it is more important for China to maintain its broader geopolitical influence over North Korea, over Korean Peninsula affairs, so that China can better manage future developments in the region.

So I think that's the main purpose of this visit, which is to downplay the importance of denuclearization, but to further improve and strengthen bilateral relations.
So would you say China has effectively moved away from seeing denuclearization as an achievable near-term objective and toward managing nuclear risk and stability instead?

In fact, by refraining from mentioning the goal of denuclearization has already undercut China's capability to impose real pressure on North Korea on the issue of nuclear weapons.
one of the things that stood out to me from your presentation at the amc conference was your discussion of how china's approach to north korea has shifted since 2024 the united states still appears committed at least rhetorically to complete denuclearization Given those constraints, can Beijing realistically help encourage a more pragmatic arms control approach, or are there simply too many political barriers in Washington for that to happen?

It is uncertain whether the U.S. still insists, you know, the goal of denuclearization in terms of near-term achievements.

But there is so much debate within Washington about what is practical for the near term.
Before we get into U.S.-China strategic stability, I would like to start with North Korea.
At the same time, you have argued that Beijing's thinking on North Korea has evolved in important ways over the past few years.
How would you characterize China's current approach to North Korea and its nuclear program?

The issue of denuclearization was not mentioned in either party's readout of the meeting.

So it looks like China now tries to prioritize improving bilateral relations with North Korea over the long-term issue of nuclear non-proliferation.

And under this circumstance, it is more important for China to maintain its broader geopolitical influence over North Korea, over Korean Peninsula affairs, so that China can better manage future developments in the region.

So I think that's the main purpose of this visit, which is to downplay the importance of denuclearization, but to further improve and strengthen bilateral relations.
So would you say China has effectively moved away from seeing denuclearization as an achievable near-term objective and toward managing nuclear risk and stability instead?

In fact, by refraining from mentioning the goal of denuclearization has already undercut China's capability to impose real pressure on North Korea on the issue of nuclear weapons.
one of the things that stood out to me from your presentation at the amc conference was your discussion of how china's approach to north korea has shifted since 2024 the united states still appears committed at least rhetorically to complete denuclearization Given those constraints, can Beijing realistically help encourage a more pragmatic arms control approach, or are there simply too many political barriers in Washington for that to happen?

It is uncertain whether the U.S. still insists, you know, the goal of denuclearization in terms of near-term achievements.

But there is so much debate within Washington about what is practical for the near term.
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