The It Depends Podcast with Matt Healey
Sep 19, 2026 · 51 min · 11 segments
Day 3 of the AES26 Evaluation Conference on beautiful Larrakia Country in Darwin came to a close, and Matt was only a day behind getting the episode out! This one is a little bit different. Matt still…
Matt HealeyHost
Martina DonkersGuest
Jess DartGuest
Rick CummingsGuest
George ArgyrisGuest
Kate McCaigGuest
Cameron LawmanGuestNicole TusharghGuestCarinaGuestcurve.

I'm here to tell you how not to become like economics and why evaluation should adopt pluralism and remain pluralistic.

If we think about and look at what happened with economics way back when, it used to be a very pluralistic approach

different sorts of thought, different methodologies, different ideologies, a whole range of things, something that was much more useful.

Interestingly, and it might seem contradictory to the argument we're trying to make, is it actually increased its external influence.

But whether it did it in a positive way in the way we define external influence is a good question.

I think we can learn a lot from that cautionary tale about what happened with economics and its shift from pluralism to a much more homogenous way of looking at the world and applying its knowledge to the world, and something that evaluators should not guard against but actively resist.

And I think we actually see it in evaluation when it comes to doing economic evaluation.

You get the economists that come in and say, we've got to do a cost-benefit analysis.

approach, a range of methods we can adopt to doing economic evaluation, such as Julian E's barely for money approach, there's a whole range of other approaches.
curve.

I'm here to tell you how not to become like economics and why evaluation should adopt pluralism and remain pluralistic.

If we think about and look at what happened with economics way back when, it used to be a very pluralistic approach

different sorts of thought, different methodologies, different ideologies, a whole range of things, something that was much more useful.

Interestingly, and it might seem contradictory to the argument we're trying to make, is it actually increased its external influence.

But whether it did it in a positive way in the way we define external influence is a good question.

I think we can learn a lot from that cautionary tale about what happened with economics and its shift from pluralism to a much more homogenous way of looking at the world and applying its knowledge to the world, and something that evaluators should not guard against but actively resist.

And I think we actually see it in evaluation when it comes to doing economic evaluation.

You get the economists that come in and say, we've got to do a cost-benefit analysis.

approach, a range of methods we can adopt to doing economic evaluation, such as Julian E's barely for money approach, there's a whole range of other approaches.
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