Dan Kerns, Senior Corporate Counsel at Stout

So back to the point and the question, how important was it to see successful representation of an openly gay man at a law firm for you to make the choice not just to go to a law firm, but to go to that particular law firm?

I mean, I think it was huge, hugely impactful in me deciding to go to that law firm and hugely impactful in, I guess, deciding how I was going to be in the workplace.

I mean, candidly, at that time, I was still... figuring myself out and coming to terms with, like, my sexual orientation identity.

And I was out to friends and newly out, I guess, within the last few years to friends, but I still wasn't even out to my family.

I wasn't even sure in the professional space, like, would I be out at work? Is that even something that's possible? And so knowing that somebody was and it made me more comfortable to go and be myself and not be fearful that people would stop giving me work or would, like, Maybe just, oh, you know, they hired me thinking that I wasn't gay and then realized I wasn't.

Maybe they're like, oh, you know, after this internship, we're going to go a different way.

So it made me comfortable to pick that firm and to, you know, figure out.

I was comfortable to just be myself there, which was nice.

Yeah.

And so then that that very statement leads me to a question around authenticity, because you basically your last comment talks about authenticity.

You are able to be yourself.

If you are in an environment where in a work environment, we're talking work, professional environment where you are more able to be yourself, bring your whole self to work, be the best version of yourself and your professional self.

as you can be, how do you believe that influences or affects the job you can do for any particular organization?

it impacts it a lot.

I mean, just, um, like intuitively and scientifically, we've, we've talked a lot about this in my current job at Stout and it's, um, I mean, scientifically shows that people that are able to bring their authentic selves to work are higher performers.

They, you know, um, you know, and when they can't, they don't feel comfortable to do so, they tend to perform,

you know,

underperform.

And, um, I just think being able to have an environment at work, um, where you can be authentically and transparently yourself if you, you know, you have that ability to be is just vital.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I found, too, so many people who know me and know me well and know my law firm are surprised that I'm at the law firm that I am because it's not historically known to have people that look or walk or move like I do, not just being a Black woman, but a relatively confident and proud Black woman who believes she's a pretty good attorney.

And I've had people who are either clients of our firm or former clients of our firm or just know our firm who are shocked that I'm actually a partner at our firm.

And for me, that means that that means that our firm, just like most firms, have evolved in a way that they recognize that while certainly there are good attorneys there.

in every aspect and every diaspora and all the things that they too are more open in accepting and welcoming people who are not all exactly the same.

So back to the point and the question, how important was it to see successful representation of an openly gay man at a law firm for you to make the choice not just to go to a law firm, but to go to that particular law firm?

I mean, I think it was huge, hugely impactful in me deciding to go to that law firm and hugely impactful in, I guess, deciding how I was going to be in the workplace.

I mean, candidly, at that time, I was still... figuring myself out and coming to terms with, like, my sexual orientation identity.

And I was out to friends and newly out, I guess, within the last few years to friends, but I still wasn't even out to my family.

I wasn't even sure in the professional space, like, would I be out at work? Is that even something that's possible? And so knowing that somebody was and it made me more comfortable to go and be myself and not be fearful that people would stop giving me work or would, like, Maybe just, oh, you know, they hired me thinking that I wasn't gay and then realized I wasn't.

Maybe they're like, oh, you know, after this internship, we're going to go a different way.

So it made me comfortable to pick that firm and to, you know, figure out.

I was comfortable to just be myself there, which was nice.

Yeah.

And so then that that very statement leads me to a question around authenticity, because you basically your last comment talks about authenticity.

You are able to be yourself.

If you are in an environment where in a work environment, we're talking work, professional environment where you are more able to be yourself, bring your whole self to work, be the best version of yourself and your professional self.

as you can be, how do you believe that influences or affects the job you can do for any particular organization?

it impacts it a lot.

I mean, just, um, like intuitively and scientifically, we've, we've talked a lot about this in my current job at Stout and it's, um, I mean, scientifically shows that people that are able to bring their authentic selves to work are higher performers.

They, you know, um, you know, and when they can't, they don't feel comfortable to do so, they tend to perform,

you know,

underperform.

And, um, I just think being able to have an environment at work, um, where you can be authentically and transparently yourself if you, you know, you have that ability to be is just vital.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I found, too, so many people who know me and know me well and know my law firm are surprised that I'm at the law firm that I am because it's not historically known to have people that look or walk or move like I do, not just being a Black woman, but a relatively confident and proud Black woman who believes she's a pretty good attorney.

And I've had people who are either clients of our firm or former clients of our firm or just know our firm who are shocked that I'm actually a partner at our firm.

And for me, that means that that means that our firm, just like most firms, have evolved in a way that they recognize that while certainly there are good attorneys there.

in every aspect and every diaspora and all the things that they too are more open in accepting and welcoming people who are not all exactly the same.