Oct 1, 2026 · 55 min · 11 segments
Rabbi Michael Holzman sits down with Reverend Bill Lamar and Rev. Dr. Vernon Walton for one of faith250's most candid conversations yet. The three clergy wrestle with what it means to love or refuse…
Okay, so negotiating these allegiances and talking about democracy, a word came up when Bill was talking, the word citizen.
And I want to go back to that word a little bit because I think it's a helpful framework for us to navigate some of these issues of patriotism, right? So if patriotism is love of country, both of you said, I'm a citizen.
And citizenship is not the same thing as love, right? Love is an emotional experience.
And so I can understand why some people hesitate with talking about love of country, because like, how do you love a thing that's a country? How do you love it? It's an abstract kind of, you know, like a political entity.
And here we are in this 250th year, we're celebrating the Declaration of Independence.
I think, Vernon, we had an experience where we were singing a version of the New Colossus and the cantor at my synagogue.
It was a medley, and it went from the New Colossus right into God Bless America.
And you were like, ooh, we just crossed a line that I'm not comfortable with here.
I think the way we talk about our connection between the individual and the country is often mitigated by this word citizen.
It's the clothing we wear when we think about our connection to the country.
And the ancient Greeks came into the land of Israel, and it was not a good scene for the Jews.
Okay, so negotiating these allegiances and talking about democracy, a word came up when Bill was talking, the word citizen.
And I want to go back to that word a little bit because I think it's a helpful framework for us to navigate some of these issues of patriotism, right? So if patriotism is love of country, both of you said, I'm a citizen.
And citizenship is not the same thing as love, right? Love is an emotional experience.
And so I can understand why some people hesitate with talking about love of country, because like, how do you love a thing that's a country? How do you love it? It's an abstract kind of, you know, like a political entity.
And here we are in this 250th year, we're celebrating the Declaration of Independence.
I think, Vernon, we had an experience where we were singing a version of the New Colossus and the cantor at my synagogue.
It was a medley, and it went from the New Colossus right into God Bless America.
And you were like, ooh, we just crossed a line that I'm not comfortable with here.
I think the way we talk about our connection between the individual and the country is often mitigated by this word citizen.
It's the clothing we wear when we think about our connection to the country.
And the ancient Greeks came into the land of Israel, and it was not a good scene for the Jews.
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