Aug 18, 2026 · 58 min · 16 segments
Paul Mueller and David Kotter examine one of today's most debated policy proposals: Universal Basic Income (UBI). As advances in artificial intelligence reshape the economy, some argue that…
David KotterGuestPaul MuellerHostWell, and I've mentioned this, I can't remember whether it's on a, a different podcast episode or in a previous, uh, Harwood Salon, but there's a work of a Harvard political economist, Benjamin Friedman-
... called The Moral Consequences of Economic Growth, and I remember reading that book maybe about a decade ago, and it really shifted my view of how economics is connected to flourishing.
Because we tend to focus on standards of living, which is good, right? Sort of wealth creation, what do things cost, what do we have access to, and that's important.
Uh, but the point that he makes in his book, kind of looking at a, a variety of data in US history, is that actually what seems to matter most for human flourishing is not the level of wealth, but the change over time.
The idea that you can actually improve your life, or that your childrens' will be better than yours, that it's the dynamism of the economy.
So it's not about achieving, you know, $50,000 per capita or $100,000 per capita or 120, but rather the, the kind of society in which we can move from 50 to 70-
... might be better than a society where we're at 100 and we're just at 100 and we stagnate.
And so there's this, this dynamic or change that matters, and, and all kinds of good social outcomes are correlated with that.
Less racism, more solidarity, other, you know, less hostility and division in those periods when the economy was growing well, which I think just sort of echoes what you were saying-
... and we can nuance that back in history or even today, the United Nations standard of poverty is $3 per day.
And so the transition from $3 a day to six or nine, that's where you see flourishing closely tied-
But by the time you get into what you were talking about, the $50,000 a year to 70,000-
Well, and I've mentioned this, I can't remember whether it's on a, a different podcast episode or in a previous, uh, Harwood Salon, but there's a work of a Harvard political economist, Benjamin Friedman-
... called The Moral Consequences of Economic Growth, and I remember reading that book maybe about a decade ago, and it really shifted my view of how economics is connected to flourishing.
Because we tend to focus on standards of living, which is good, right? Sort of wealth creation, what do things cost, what do we have access to, and that's important.
Uh, but the point that he makes in his book, kind of looking at a, a variety of data in US history, is that actually what seems to matter most for human flourishing is not the level of wealth, but the change over time.
The idea that you can actually improve your life, or that your childrens' will be better than yours, that it's the dynamism of the economy.
So it's not about achieving, you know, $50,000 per capita or $100,000 per capita or 120, but rather the, the kind of society in which we can move from 50 to 70-
... might be better than a society where we're at 100 and we're just at 100 and we stagnate.
And so there's this, this dynamic or change that matters, and, and all kinds of good social outcomes are correlated with that.
Less racism, more solidarity, other, you know, less hostility and division in those periods when the economy was growing well, which I think just sort of echoes what you were saying-
... and we can nuance that back in history or even today, the United Nations standard of poverty is $3 per day.
And so the transition from $3 a day to six or nine, that's where you see flourishing closely tied-
But by the time you get into what you were talking about, the $50,000 a year to 70,000-
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