The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria
Aug 12, 2026 · 1 hr 15 min · 19 segments
Gestalt Language Processing (GLP) and Natural Language Acquisition (NLA) have become extraordinarily popular in speech-language pathology, particularly in conversations about autistic children who use…
Kathleen OppenheimerGuestMatt CicoriaHostI think kind of embedded in your, your answer there is like, you know, I think this is a-- [clears throat] you know, if listeners aren't familiar with some of the various logical fallacies that are out there, this is a good opportunity to brush up on them if you're not super familiar.
Uh, and so, you know, the straw man or the, you know, uh, I think I see, you know, just kind of...
And again, I don't wanna make the claim that Instagram is life, but you know, a lot of things on the, uh, on the accounts that come across my radar, it's, there, there's like these appeals to authority, you know, because, you know, the, the, you know, this person said it, not, you know, what does the evidence say? Uh, so and that, that's another one that at least jumped out at me.
But I, I, I, I'm not-- So what are the-- I, I, I assume there's probably more to say about the costs of like going full tilt GLP in your therapeutic approach.
Is there more to say about that? You know, obviously, you know, you can go nowhere fast if there's no prompting at all ever.
But if someone's like, "Hey, what's the harm in doing this?" You know, you know, w- how would you respond to that?

So I think, right, so there's the potential harm of would another therapeutic approach have helped you get more progress sooner? And specifically, there's, it's really the recommendations around verbs and grammatical speech and object labels that I really disagree with the most.

So many proponents of NLA have walked back some of these bigger claims about no verbs until stage four.

In fact, many of them are now saying that they never said that, and it's just the critics that put those words in their mouths.

But there are sources written by proponents of NLA that do take pretty strong stances against single words and against verbs.

I think changing your mind is a wonderful thing, but-- and I think that it would actually give NLA more credibility if they were very upfront about why they've walked back some of those recommendations rather than just saying that the critics did it.

But so in NLA, remember that fifty percent of dir- language directed at the child would be natural language modeling, so talking normally.

So children would still be hearing single words and verbs in that fifty percent.

The recommendation I'm taking issue with is that that remaining fifty percent of language at the child is supposed to be at their stage, and it's in, within that fifty percent of language modeling that there would be no single words until stage three and no verbs until stage four, unless those verbs occur inside a child's echolalia.

And we know that from this language processing research methodology, that autistic children understand more words than they can say, which is common of, like, literally anyone learning a language understands words bef- more words than they say in early language development.

So we see that kids who are using echolalia and are autistic are understanding words, and I think teaching individual words is a very evidence-aligned approach to therapy.

I like to do it in a very naturalistic way, you know, modeling the words we're playing with rather than coming in with my set of, "I'm gonna teach you these five words." But single words I think are important.

Verbs, so much research backs the importance of verbs early on in language development.
I think kind of embedded in your, your answer there is like, you know, I think this is a-- [clears throat] you know, if listeners aren't familiar with some of the various logical fallacies that are out there, this is a good opportunity to brush up on them if you're not super familiar.
Uh, and so, you know, the straw man or the, you know, uh, I think I see, you know, just kind of...
And again, I don't wanna make the claim that Instagram is life, but you know, a lot of things on the, uh, on the accounts that come across my radar, it's, there, there's like these appeals to authority, you know, because, you know, the, the, you know, this person said it, not, you know, what does the evidence say? Uh, so and that, that's another one that at least jumped out at me.
But I, I, I, I'm not-- So what are the-- I, I, I assume there's probably more to say about the costs of like going full tilt GLP in your therapeutic approach.
Is there more to say about that? You know, obviously, you know, you can go nowhere fast if there's no prompting at all ever.
But if someone's like, "Hey, what's the harm in doing this?" You know, you know, w- how would you respond to that?

So I think, right, so there's the potential harm of would another therapeutic approach have helped you get more progress sooner? And specifically, there's, it's really the recommendations around verbs and grammatical speech and object labels that I really disagree with the most.

So many proponents of NLA have walked back some of these bigger claims about no verbs until stage four.

In fact, many of them are now saying that they never said that, and it's just the critics that put those words in their mouths.

But there are sources written by proponents of NLA that do take pretty strong stances against single words and against verbs.

I think changing your mind is a wonderful thing, but-- and I think that it would actually give NLA more credibility if they were very upfront about why they've walked back some of those recommendations rather than just saying that the critics did it.

But so in NLA, remember that fifty percent of dir- language directed at the child would be natural language modeling, so talking normally.

So children would still be hearing single words and verbs in that fifty percent.

The recommendation I'm taking issue with is that that remaining fifty percent of language at the child is supposed to be at their stage, and it's in, within that fifty percent of language modeling that there would be no single words until stage three and no verbs until stage four, unless those verbs occur inside a child's echolalia.

And we know that from this language processing research methodology, that autistic children understand more words than they can say, which is common of, like, literally anyone learning a language understands words bef- more words than they say in early language development.

So we see that kids who are using echolalia and are autistic are understanding words, and I think teaching individual words is a very evidence-aligned approach to therapy.

I like to do it in a very naturalistic way, you know, modeling the words we're playing with rather than coming in with my set of, "I'm gonna teach you these five words." But single words I think are important.

Verbs, so much research backs the importance of verbs early on in language development.
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