The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria
Feb 23, 2026 · 1 hr 6 min · 21 segments
In this episode, I talk with Dr. Alice Shillingsburg about her work on rapport building and pairing procedures in applied behavior analysis for children with autism. We explore how building…
Alice ShillingsburgGuestMatt CicoriaHostSo I, I think many listeners, I-- you know, the, uh, it's hard to get accurate, you know, kind of demographic information about who the listeners are, but we can assume most listeners here are BCBAs.
But I kn- I do know that some, some people share these with families, you know, and, and other, you know, maybe l- less technically trained stakeholders in the world of-
I think mo- I guess what I'm saying is that most people listening to this will have some appreciation for why this is important.
If someone shares this with a parent or a, you know, a family member or something like that, why is building rapport in the context of trying to get something done in a s-
You know, when you ask that kind of two, two sort of ideas come to my mind where I'm kind of thinking about how to, to talk about the importance of this.
One is, you know, it's kind of like this idea, have you ever had a boss that you really love and then contrast that with like a boss that you just really didn't care for? And think about kind of your discretionary effort and, you know, we do hard things, and we put forth better effort when we're working with people we like.
I, I think I-- you know, I, I feel like that holds true in, you know, sort of, uh, IO psychology or, or organizational psychology, right? Where that relationship between people, it matters and it's, it's-- So I think that's an easy way to kind of talk about like when, when kids present to therapy, and this isn't, this isn't just for children with autism.
When anyone presents to therapy, you're usually gonna be working on hard things.
Uh, you know, it's for, for the kids that we serve, learning things i- isn't coming naturally or isn't coming easily.
A- and, you know, if you think about more traditional therapy, someone who's...
You know, it is hard to think about, you know, past traumas or, you know, these kinds of things that can be unpleasant, can be difficult, can be hard, requires effort, persistence.
And so I think it makes sense, you know, to think about the context within, with, within which we would all do better facing things that are hard, being asked to do hard tasks when it's with somebody that you like, that you trust, that you know isn't gonna make you do things, you know, that are, that are super unpleasant, that are gonna work with you.
I think that it, it can start to make sense why we spend time building this rapport, creating this foundation of a positive, strong relationship before we really get into the nitty-gritty of the hard work.
So I, I think many listeners, I-- you know, the, uh, it's hard to get accurate, you know, kind of demographic information about who the listeners are, but we can assume most listeners here are BCBAs.
But I kn- I do know that some, some people share these with families, you know, and, and other, you know, maybe l- less technically trained stakeholders in the world of-
I think mo- I guess what I'm saying is that most people listening to this will have some appreciation for why this is important.
If someone shares this with a parent or a, you know, a family member or something like that, why is building rapport in the context of trying to get something done in a s-
You know, when you ask that kind of two, two sort of ideas come to my mind where I'm kind of thinking about how to, to talk about the importance of this.
One is, you know, it's kind of like this idea, have you ever had a boss that you really love and then contrast that with like a boss that you just really didn't care for? And think about kind of your discretionary effort and, you know, we do hard things, and we put forth better effort when we're working with people we like.
I, I think I-- you know, I, I feel like that holds true in, you know, sort of, uh, IO psychology or, or organizational psychology, right? Where that relationship between people, it matters and it's, it's-- So I think that's an easy way to kind of talk about like when, when kids present to therapy, and this isn't, this isn't just for children with autism.
When anyone presents to therapy, you're usually gonna be working on hard things.
Uh, you know, it's for, for the kids that we serve, learning things i- isn't coming naturally or isn't coming easily.
A- and, you know, if you think about more traditional therapy, someone who's...
You know, it is hard to think about, you know, past traumas or, you know, these kinds of things that can be unpleasant, can be difficult, can be hard, requires effort, persistence.
And so I think it makes sense, you know, to think about the context within, with, within which we would all do better facing things that are hard, being asked to do hard tasks when it's with somebody that you like, that you trust, that you know isn't gonna make you do things, you know, that are, that are super unpleasant, that are gonna work with you.
I think that it, it can start to make sense why we spend time building this rapport, creating this foundation of a positive, strong relationship before we really get into the nitty-gritty of the hard work.
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