Talking Strategy, Making History
Aug 25, 2026 · 52 min · 9 segments
#60 Talking With Nelson Lichtenstein about the state of unions In time for Labor Day, we converse with Nelson Lichtenstein, the dean of American labor historians. He wrote, years ago, a classic…
Nelson LichtensteinGuestDaraka Larimore-HallHost
Dick FlacksHost
So, by the way, I should have said, Duraka, that you have a history yourself with the United Auto Workers.
You actually worked for the union when you were organizing the graduate student TAs back in the day.
Both of the UAW as an academic, not just auto, the A standing for academic, in California has been quite phenomenal, and you're a part of that history.
So just to reinforce the story you were telling, Nelson, for the first time in history, every member of the union had a chance to vote for who was going to be the national officers of it.
There's another part of it, which has to do with that monitor that you mentioned.
Well, I just wanted to maybe give listeners a little bit more sort of context and stakes before we jump into those very interesting questions, which is that, like, so, you know, the UAW is a union that is... right now has leadership that is making the case for more militancy, more organizing workers who aren't in unions, aggressively demanding major gains for wages and rights on the job and benefits for the workers they already represent.
And so I think there's a lot of people watching what's happening in the UAW who are interested in more generally in a revitalized labor movement, a more, yeah, more militant confrontational and progressive sort of, you know, uh, uh,
A labor movement that is, you know, also taking on broader social issues, are listening to coalition partners in the environmental movement or racial justice movements, etc.
You know, yeah, purports to be interested in and fighting for and so forth.
So we're all kind of watching and seeing both, you know, how are they doing? And also, you know, what are members thinking? Where are they going to vote? Are they going to give that approach another mandate? So, yeah, with that, I mean, something that I'm very interested in hearing you opine on, Nelson, is, you know, what are the bases of support, power, influence and so forth for different factions in the union right now? And, you know, how much of it in your sense in this election is going to play out actually as a referendum on a set of issues or something a little more mechanical or even, you know, transactional and so forth, which often happens in these things.
And then maybe at the end, we could talk a little bit about union democracy.
The question of union democracy sort of more broadly, which both of you, I think, have a lot of great things to say.
So, by the way, I should have said, Duraka, that you have a history yourself with the United Auto Workers.
You actually worked for the union when you were organizing the graduate student TAs back in the day.
Both of the UAW as an academic, not just auto, the A standing for academic, in California has been quite phenomenal, and you're a part of that history.
So just to reinforce the story you were telling, Nelson, for the first time in history, every member of the union had a chance to vote for who was going to be the national officers of it.
There's another part of it, which has to do with that monitor that you mentioned.
Well, I just wanted to maybe give listeners a little bit more sort of context and stakes before we jump into those very interesting questions, which is that, like, so, you know, the UAW is a union that is... right now has leadership that is making the case for more militancy, more organizing workers who aren't in unions, aggressively demanding major gains for wages and rights on the job and benefits for the workers they already represent.
And so I think there's a lot of people watching what's happening in the UAW who are interested in more generally in a revitalized labor movement, a more, yeah, more militant confrontational and progressive sort of, you know, uh, uh,
A labor movement that is, you know, also taking on broader social issues, are listening to coalition partners in the environmental movement or racial justice movements, etc.
You know, yeah, purports to be interested in and fighting for and so forth.
So we're all kind of watching and seeing both, you know, how are they doing? And also, you know, what are members thinking? Where are they going to vote? Are they going to give that approach another mandate? So, yeah, with that, I mean, something that I'm very interested in hearing you opine on, Nelson, is, you know, what are the bases of support, power, influence and so forth for different factions in the union right now? And, you know, how much of it in your sense in this election is going to play out actually as a referendum on a set of issues or something a little more mechanical or even, you know, transactional and so forth, which often happens in these things.
And then maybe at the end, we could talk a little bit about union democracy.
The question of union democracy sort of more broadly, which both of you, I think, have a lot of great things to say.
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