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So Finn Smith actually, there is, there is loads to pick up on in that interview.

He's 24.

Hmm.

And he's emerged as a, I think a, a really vital kind of sounding board for the England team because he, he doesn't sort of sugarcoat it.

He tells it how it is, doesn't he? Just think he, he increasingly talks with such an assuredness, which does-

Mm

... which you would expect by someone a, a 28, 29, not 24.

Well, it helps when the club's had success, doesn't it? And you've been on a Lions tour, and you've been in and around, uh, experienced England players, just being in the room constantly around it.

Not necessarily starting, but just being in and around the voices.

True, but couldn't it still be easy when you're an England player to be, to toe the party line?

Yeah, but... [laughs] I'm, I'm probably the worst person to be asking this, surely.

Why? [laughs]

'Cause I'm always gonna say, "You say what you think." [laughs]

Yeah, no, tr- true, true, true.

Uh, yeah, I don't, I would not say that I'd seen success in places where people do that.

Where they do just go down the kind of everything's gonna be fine.

Yeah, because, uh, you're not gonna get the best out of yourself, 'cause really you think you should be doing something else, so you're trying to do something that you, your mind doesn't want to be doing.

And then you could lose anyway, so, and then you lost, you'd be sat there and be like, "Well, I wish I'd have said this.

I wish I'd have done that."

You're more, you think you're more, you're more likely to regret not saying something, not calling it straight, than the other way around.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Probably gets forgotten if you win.

Sure.

Clearly.