Aug 26, 2026 · 1 hr · 10 segments
In this episode of Politics in Question, Lee chats with Alex Hertel-Fernandez and Jamila Michener about what power building might look like for the next pro-democracy government. Hertel-Fernandez is…
Jamila MichenerGuest
Alex Hertel-FernandezGuest
Lee DrutmanHost
So speaking of organizing, you guys have organized this empowering democracy initiative.
And there's a bunch of different thinkers, people who had kind of been in government, academics.
Well, I will say I wouldn't say I organized it, but I got to be a part of it.
But Alex was and some of his colleagues were really, I think, like the intellectual and in many ways like moral engine behind it.
And then I'm happy to jump in and talk about sort of some of what I contributed as well.
And so much of the project draws on amazing scholarship, including that Jamila and her colleagues have done.
But to back up, the origin story for the Empowering Democracy Initiative really comes out of the diagnosis of the moment that we're in right now.
We're in a crisis of democracy that's both acute and also longstanding, as Lee, you and your co-hosts have been talking about for a while now on this podcast.
And we now face a moment where after Trump, there may be a pro-democracy presidential administration that has a chance, a fleeting chance, to institute reforms to try and repair a lot of the damage that has been done.
And the question is, what should those repairs look like? EDI's perspective is it's not enough to go back to the status quo of how government was before Trump.
Instead, we need to think about using the levers of government to build up organized civil society power among workers, among tenants, among consumers, debtors, parents, and others who have lacked voice historically and diminish the power of folks like oligarchs or companies that are violating people's rights who we think are impeding a more responsive democracy.
And Lee, you put it so well when you said organization rules in American politics.
And a key theory that we have is that If we're going to build pro-democracy civil society power, it has to be organized power.
We need to empower people through durable organizations like unions or tenant organizations that can help people exercise political voice in an ongoing way.
So how are we doing our work? We are talking to really smart people like Janela, like Mallory Sorrell, like folks who have served in government, some of my colleagues at the Department of Labor and all across the administration, folks like Sam Bagenstos, who's at the Department of Health and Human Services.
So speaking of organizing, you guys have organized this empowering democracy initiative.
And there's a bunch of different thinkers, people who had kind of been in government, academics.
Well, I will say I wouldn't say I organized it, but I got to be a part of it.
But Alex was and some of his colleagues were really, I think, like the intellectual and in many ways like moral engine behind it.
And then I'm happy to jump in and talk about sort of some of what I contributed as well.
And so much of the project draws on amazing scholarship, including that Jamila and her colleagues have done.
But to back up, the origin story for the Empowering Democracy Initiative really comes out of the diagnosis of the moment that we're in right now.
We're in a crisis of democracy that's both acute and also longstanding, as Lee, you and your co-hosts have been talking about for a while now on this podcast.
And we now face a moment where after Trump, there may be a pro-democracy presidential administration that has a chance, a fleeting chance, to institute reforms to try and repair a lot of the damage that has been done.
And the question is, what should those repairs look like? EDI's perspective is it's not enough to go back to the status quo of how government was before Trump.
Instead, we need to think about using the levers of government to build up organized civil society power among workers, among tenants, among consumers, debtors, parents, and others who have lacked voice historically and diminish the power of folks like oligarchs or companies that are violating people's rights who we think are impeding a more responsive democracy.
And Lee, you put it so well when you said organization rules in American politics.
And a key theory that we have is that If we're going to build pro-democracy civil society power, it has to be organized power.
We need to empower people through durable organizations like unions or tenant organizations that can help people exercise political voice in an ongoing way.
So how are we doing our work? We are talking to really smart people like Janela, like Mallory Sorrell, like folks who have served in government, some of my colleagues at the Department of Labor and all across the administration, folks like Sam Bagenstos, who's at the Department of Health and Human Services.
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