Jun 10, 2026 · 1 hr 29 min · 18 segments
If you are a parent or carer of a neurodivergent child, the chances are that school attendance has been a topic that has kept you awake at night. Whether you know it as school refusal, emotionally…
Heidi MavirGuestMark AllenHostIt's a topic that has been requested quite a lot of times from my listeners, and if I'm honest, it's one that I've sort of held back from doing for quite a while now, because it's quite an emotional one, and it impacts so many of our listeners.
I get one shot at each of these topics, and sometimes they're so big I sort of hold back a little bit, um, because I wanna do it justice.
And that is the very reason I decided to get Heidi on to discuss it, because obviously Heidi's account of EBSA was the first one that I read about in her wonderful book, Your Child Is Not Broken, whi- which is incredible.
If you haven't read it, Neuroshamblers, it's, it's brilliant, and I heartily encourage you to invest in it.
But I obviously know that Heidi has not only got lived experience of EBSA with Theo, but has also been in the trenches with many other families-... fighting schools and LAs to try and get the right accommodations for the, for other people's children, as well as being inspired to create her own consultancy business to support families whose children need education outside a traditional school setting, which is EO Test Matters.
So I guess where we start, Heidi, is unpacking what EBSA means, because there are so many different terms for what-
Because that's the- that's one that is very often used by people who don't know better.

School refusal was the term that was used a lot when we were, when we were first in this.

And, you know, if, I guess, for people who are seeing how it's presenting for a child, and when you're ringing a school and saying, "My kid will not come to school," then it, it...

But, um, one of the challenges that we have in the community is that for many of us, and not all, but for many of us, our kids with barriers to attendance in the neurodivergent space particularly, are kids who have demand-avoided profiles.

So 75%, I think the last number was from the PDA Society, of kids with pathological demand-avoided profiles have barriers to attendance or are out of school.
It's a topic that has been requested quite a lot of times from my listeners, and if I'm honest, it's one that I've sort of held back from doing for quite a while now, because it's quite an emotional one, and it impacts so many of our listeners.
I get one shot at each of these topics, and sometimes they're so big I sort of hold back a little bit, um, because I wanna do it justice.
And that is the very reason I decided to get Heidi on to discuss it, because obviously Heidi's account of EBSA was the first one that I read about in her wonderful book, Your Child Is Not Broken, whi- which is incredible.
If you haven't read it, Neuroshamblers, it's, it's brilliant, and I heartily encourage you to invest in it.
But I obviously know that Heidi has not only got lived experience of EBSA with Theo, but has also been in the trenches with many other families-... fighting schools and LAs to try and get the right accommodations for the, for other people's children, as well as being inspired to create her own consultancy business to support families whose children need education outside a traditional school setting, which is EO Test Matters.
So I guess where we start, Heidi, is unpacking what EBSA means, because there are so many different terms for what-
Because that's the- that's one that is very often used by people who don't know better.

School refusal was the term that was used a lot when we were, when we were first in this.

And, you know, if, I guess, for people who are seeing how it's presenting for a child, and when you're ringing a school and saying, "My kid will not come to school," then it, it...

But, um, one of the challenges that we have in the community is that for many of us, and not all, but for many of us, our kids with barriers to attendance in the neurodivergent space particularly, are kids who have demand-avoided profiles.

So 75%, I think the last number was from the PDA Society, of kids with pathological demand-avoided profiles have barriers to attendance or are out of school.
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