Pathological demand avoidance

So let's talk about this in the context of we were before we went on.

We talked about PDA as well as RSD.

So PDA is pervasive demand avoidance or PDA.

It's known by a few other things, and RSD is rejection-sensitive dysphoria.

And I think both of us agree now in our professional and spiritual work that those are kind of secular, recent labels for a dynamic that is apparent and true, but the explanation of these things is very significantly different.

It's not exclusive to a neurodivergent person.

They may be more distressed in a moment of rejection because of many factors in their life, which have to do with a lifelong sense of being maybe a little out of phase with some things or a super sensitive traumatized neurology, right? And they're more easily triggered and more easily self-protecting going into flight or freeze versus, you know, being able to ride it out.

Same with PDA, you know, that's a more assertive fight against don't tell me what to do.

And I can't remember the other one because I don't think I like, oh, that's right.

Pathological Demand Avoidance.

That's why I can never remember it because I don't like the acronym.

Don't hate on me, PDA-ers.

And we can be in burnout, and we can be coping.

But if you can pinpoint that rock bottom moment where you sent that email to a professional, where you begged for help, where you just threw in the towel 'cause you had no idea what was going on and what to do, then I would say that the PDA child, teen, or young adult that you are in this with, supporting through their burnout, and your family's kind of burnout because of what they're going through and what that means for everyone else, those struggles, I will say that I bet you've hit your tipping point, and you've hit your rock bottom.

And maybe this is the first time as you hear me say those words that you think, "My gosh, I...

Like, this is it.

This, this is the tipping point.

What do we do?" I know- Hey, quick pause here because I want to tell you about something pretty exciting.

I'm running a free training in supporting your PDA child and your entire family out of burnout.

If you've tried all of those rewards charts, being consistent, those low-demand parenting strategies that everyone else swears by, but you just cannot figure out what you are doing that isn't working with your PDA child, then this is for you.

My goal is to share insights that will generate aha moments and support your connection with your child.

I'm a mom of two amazing little boys, one of whom is PDA, and I've worked with hundreds of parents just like you to teach them how to lead their child out of burnout and find the clarity, peace, and sense of community they need.

[upbeat music] Before we get into today's episode, I wanna make sure you know about something that might really help if your PDA or suspected PDA child or teen is in burnout and you're running on fumes too.

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Okay, let's jump into today's episode.

Hey, guys.

But just also thinking about another fun variable in the mix here.

And by fun, I mean in a trickster, mischievous kind of way of demand avoidance.

Oh, goodness.

Yeah.

But even a moment where it's like, I understand what's happening sensory-wise.

I even understand what I need, like what that sensory issue needs.

But the demand avoidance is like, no, no.

Oh, my God.

And so, yeah, that is always interesting or the tug of war between autism and ADHD.

Like I have PDA, pathological demand avoidance with my autism.

Sometimes it's like, I love routine, but then I get tired of routine and then I don't want any routine.

But then I struggle when I don't have a routine.

And I can't kind of come to like a middle ground.

Yeah.

For listeners who might not know PDA much, I know I've done an episode on it, but it was a while back.

So could you define it or explain how it shows up for you?

I'm curious how you are able to create a nonprofit in the midst of autistic burnout.

So I think like to answer that question, it requires like rewinding and capturing the emotional intensity of like, PDA fear? It's not just PDA rage.

I feel like I talk about PDA rage a lot.

Rage is an emotion that I feel on the regular, so I name it and refer to it a lot.

But fear is not an emotion that I...

And so I remember...

I mean, it's not a cohesive movie that I watch in my head a lot, but I have snapshots of it.

of like the desperation of like what it is to be a PDA-er who is trapped in the corner, like the caged animal in the corner.

Welcome to the PDA Parenting Podcast.

This show will be dedicated to supporting parents raising kids with PDA autism.

I'm your host, Amy Kotha, a parent coach and a mom to a PDA-er myself.

This podcast is here to provide you with practical insights, real life experiences, and expert guidance to help you better understand your child and to parent from a place of connection, empathy, and understanding.

Whether you're new to PDA or you're already familiar with the journey, you're in the right place.

Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the podcast.

So I want to talk today about compliance.

It's compliance thinking that hides underneath parenting that looks compassionate and looks neuroaffirming.

Hey everyone.

Today we're diving into PDA, traditionally called pathological demand avoidance, but increasingly understood as a pervasive drive for autonomy.

Now, the clinical definition, pathological demand avoidance, is a profile on the autism spectrum characterized by an involuntary non-biological threat response to everyday demands.

When perceived autonomy or equality is compromised, the nervous system reflexively triggers fight, flight, freeze, or fawn.

So right now I can't.

Autonomy is a biological oxygen needed to stay regulated.

So autonomy is almost like, it's like the driving force with PDA and anything that threatens that, or that feels like a demand, there's basically fight, flight, freeze, or fawn.

Patrick, can you tell us a little bit about kind of the recent realization that you've had with PDA, maybe you have a stronger resistance or a stronger, yeah, I guess resistance to like, for example, academics, certain academic tasks.