Aug 8, 2026 · 25 min · 9 segments
In his first interview since declaring the ElizaOS token dead, Eliza Labs Founder Shaw Walters sits down with CoinDesk's Jennifer Sanasie to lay out what he says actually happened. He also makes a…
Shaw WaltersGuest
Jennifer SanasieHost
And I feel like they're all just laying low because they created a monster, which is, like, just the cesspool of human incentive and degeneracy, and, like, I ... think that there is a lot of, um, maybe a, a, a hint of guilt there at creating that, because this was supposed to be the beautiful cyber, like cypherpunk dream where, where we, like, have the tools for privacy and security and to transact freely and what we think would be the best version of this.
And what we're seeing is this kind of incredible failure mode around casino, and I w- I think that's fine, like casino is fine, but what sucks is that it infected the whole culture and it became crypto culture, and there is no cypherpunk culture anymore.
And it's like, if you take the overall sentiment analysis of all crypto posts, it's like 99% negative.
Like, it's d- it's just pure complaining about why I lost money and it's your fault.
You know, for so long we talked about the need for education, the need for explaining how these things work.
Was that really where we should've been focused? Did people need to be more educated or did the products need to be different and create more value?
They know things about coins and caps and, like, insider information and things, like, just...
I read some posts, I'm like, "I don't even know what any of this means." I think there's a lot of things that are kinda cool about that, and like I, I sort of identify as, like, a degen dev.
And I feel like they're all just laying low because they created a monster, which is, like, just the cesspool of human incentive and degeneracy, and, like, I ... think that there is a lot of, um, maybe a, a, a hint of guilt there at creating that, because this was supposed to be the beautiful cyber, like cypherpunk dream where, where we, like, have the tools for privacy and security and to transact freely and what we think would be the best version of this.
And what we're seeing is this kind of incredible failure mode around casino, and I w- I think that's fine, like casino is fine, but what sucks is that it infected the whole culture and it became crypto culture, and there is no cypherpunk culture anymore.
And it's like, if you take the overall sentiment analysis of all crypto posts, it's like 99% negative.
Like, it's d- it's just pure complaining about why I lost money and it's your fault.
You know, for so long we talked about the need for education, the need for explaining how these things work.
Was that really where we should've been focused? Did people need to be more educated or did the products need to be different and create more value?
They know things about coins and caps and, like, insider information and things, like, just...
I read some posts, I'm like, "I don't even know what any of this means." I think there's a lot of things that are kinda cool about that, and like I, I sort of identify as, like, a degen dev.
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