Episode 139: Rabbi Moshe Lichtman "Is Modern-Day Israel a Fulfillment o Prophecy?" (Audio)

So just for, for the first question, um, since we brought up, uh, Theodor Herzl, uh, there's a common misconception regarding Zionism that it started, it all started with Theodor Herzl, and you point out in your introduction that it actually started 64 years before Herzl in the form of a stimulated ideological debate.

Who were some of the rabbis who were for Zionism, and what was the primary motive of those who opposed it? And are those motives still pervasive today? Obviously, today we know Zionism is a big topic of conversation.

It's extremely relevant, more than ever before, because as Jew- many Jews are maybe indifferent to the idea or maybe they don't see the connection, um, you know, as a, as some type of a Biblical prophecy coming to life.

So, um, I think it's extremely important to have this conversation now more than ever.

So without further ado.

Sure.

So i- it's interesting.

You...

I know he, I know the author, uh, wrote, you know, it started 64 years before, and he said Zionism, but Zionism actually really didn't.

Zionism with that actual term really s- really does start with Herzl.

The ones who started the movement to come back to Eretz Yisrael were mostly religious Jews, mostly big rabbis, who I'll give the names in a second, and their movement was more called the Chovevei Tzion, right?

Chovevei Tzion.

The lovers of Zion, right? And, you know, the political Zionism started more or less with Herzl.

Um, so, you know, the [laughs] uh, I forget who said it.

I think maybe it must have been Rav Kook who said, you know, uh, you know, Zionism has become a bad word unfortunately in many, uh, circles, but if you really think about it, God is a Zionist because it says, "Ki bachar Hashem betzion yevah lemoshav lo." I mean, we...

There's a s- bumper sticker someone saw that someone wrote that on it.

God is a religious Zionist, right? Uh, you know, it's...

God chose Zion.

He's the one who chose it.

He's the one who desires it.

We say it every day in davening, "Yevah lemoshav lo." He desires it to be his dwelling place.

So these rabbis-Just, I mean, what caused it, probably a lot of different factors caused this idea to be, to be woken up in their, in their minds.

Um, probably, I mean, you know, maybe we'll touch on this a little later, but, you know, probably divinely inspired to a certain degree, um, that, you know, why all of a sudden? You know, for thousands of years Jews have been persecuted.

It's not the, the, the Holocaust or the, the antisemitism that started prior to the Holocaust, you know, was nothing new.

Right.

So just for, for the first question, um, since we brought up, uh, Theodor Herzl, uh, there's a common misconception regarding Zionism that it started, it all started with Theodor Herzl, and you point out in your introduction that it actually started 64 years before Herzl in the form of a stimulated ideological debate.

Who were some of the rabbis who were for Zionism, and what was the primary motive of those who opposed it? And are those motives still pervasive today? Obviously, today we know Zionism is a big topic of conversation.

It's extremely relevant, more than ever before, because as Jew- many Jews are maybe indifferent to the idea or maybe they don't see the connection, um, you know, as a, as some type of a Biblical prophecy coming to life.

So, um, I think it's extremely important to have this conversation now more than ever.

So without further ado.

Sure.

So i- it's interesting.

You...

I know he, I know the author, uh, wrote, you know, it started 64 years before, and he said Zionism, but Zionism actually really didn't.

Zionism with that actual term really s- really does start with Herzl.

The ones who started the movement to come back to Eretz Yisrael were mostly religious Jews, mostly big rabbis, who I'll give the names in a second, and their movement was more called the Chovevei Tzion, right?

Chovevei Tzion.

The lovers of Zion, right? And, you know, the political Zionism started more or less with Herzl.

Um, so, you know, the [laughs] uh, I forget who said it.

I think maybe it must have been Rav Kook who said, you know, uh, you know, Zionism has become a bad word unfortunately in many, uh, circles, but if you really think about it, God is a Zionist because it says, "Ki bachar Hashem betzion yevah lemoshav lo." I mean, we...

There's a s- bumper sticker someone saw that someone wrote that on it.

God is a religious Zionist, right? Uh, you know, it's...

God chose Zion.

He's the one who chose it.

He's the one who desires it.

We say it every day in davening, "Yevah lemoshav lo." He desires it to be his dwelling place.

So these rabbis-Just, I mean, what caused it, probably a lot of different factors caused this idea to be, to be woken up in their, in their minds.

Um, probably, I mean, you know, maybe we'll touch on this a little later, but, you know, probably divinely inspired to a certain degree, um, that, you know, why all of a sudden? You know, for thousands of years Jews have been persecuted.

It's not the, the, the Holocaust or the, the antisemitism that started prior to the Holocaust, you know, was nothing new.

Right.