E81: Code for America’s Amanda Renteria on Modernizing Benefits—and Using AI Without Harming People

So a lot of the work you guys do is focused on modernization, right? It's like an evergreen topic when it comes to government and technology.

And we've seen, frankly, we've seen billions invested in modernization over the years.

But residents still encounter these fragmented systems, right, that you guys really aim to tackle.

I guess what separates sort of this transformation effort and technology a successful one from those that simply sort of like digitize existing bureaucracies.

Yeah, it's a great question.

And one of the things I'm most proud of is that our work is actually embedded sitting at kitchen tables or in libraries, watching people try and actually apply for food assistance.

So Get CalFresh was our flagship program.

It was our flagship application.

And the entire intention was how do we just help folks fill out a form, get it through, and then how do we help government on the other side make sure it goes through fast? The fact that we start at that very premise of the person trying to navigate government, that to me is really for us, not only what leads our mission, but it's also what is for me a measure of success.

Is our government working? The number one thing is, does it work for real people, right? So when I fill out a form, when I get my driver's license, when I need to make sure that I have school loans for my kids, When things like that actually work smoothly and nicely, and maybe even, as they say in tech, delightfully, that to

me is actually a success.

And I think there's just so much room for opportunity here, not only with emerging new technology, but really just being in the systems and trying to work out sitting side by side with public servants who I know many want to do the right thing, but they don't have the tools or the training or the expertise to do it.

And we try our best to bridge that gap.

But it really does start with how was the experience for the person, for the resident trying to get what they needed?

And I mean, that goes to the point of, you know, everyone likes something a different way.

So I've seen plenty of systems designed and some very intelligent, smart people got together.

But then there isn't that thought given to like...

How does the citizen encounter this? And are we meeting citizens where they need to be? Right.

It may work well for me, but it doesn't work well for my mom who wants to pick up the phone and call someone and talk to a person.

So

I know you guys have done a lot of work, especially with some of the lower income programs, SNAP, TANF, those types of things.

really with consumer experience, customer experience, citizen experience.

Give us some insights about sort of what you've learned, how governments maybe get it right and maybe don't.

Yeah, I mean, one big thing is making sure there is no wrong door.

And so if you want to go online, for some people, that's great, right? Particularly a younger generation, they're like, what do you mean I have to go into a building? Why can't I just do it from my phone? I can do everything else from my phone.