Oct 9, 2026 · 46 min · 10 segments
In this episode of *Centering Health Equity*, our distinguished guests Dr. Somava Saha and Dr. Danica Sumpter speak about why healthcare organizations must look beyond individual bias training to…
Somava SahaGuest
Danica SumpterGuest
Maria HernandezHostDwayne ReynoldsHostvery, very interesting perspective to understand that we all are really a part of a larger system here that's at play.
And I've understood that in the work that I do as a health equity consultant.
But to your point, it's not that health professions schools generally are teaching these types of philosophies about how the system itself was built and operates.
And so if you could both just share the most common ways that you feel like healthcare organizations misunderstand systemic racism, that would be great.
And I think the way that organizations and systems understand it is similar to the way that individuals understand it, because organizations and systems are made up of people.
And so, as was alluded to, often the default when we think about racism is the interpersonal, the mean acts of bigotry, hatred, bias, those sorts of things that you see.
And so I think that's one of the bigger pieces is the focus on individual acts rather than on the system and structures, not because of ill intent or ill will on anyone's part, but just we're not necessarily taught and trained to see that the emperor has no clothes on.
And the other piece I would say is something that has really resonated with me was to work with Justice Squared and why I just was so honored to be a part of this.
It was a difference that I see in other work that I've been a part of is that ability to see ourselves and how we are complicit.
And so one of our Guiding images is a double helix, the two strands of the DNA.
And so this idea of I can't change the world unless I'm willing to be changed myself.
And so I think that's often a part as well within a university, within a health care space.
We're often looking out the window and seeing what we can change out there and who needs fixing.
But rarely is there the mirror that's turned on self to be as one of our equity consultants, Joyce Jane said, to become critical lovers of ourselves and our systems.
I just, I mean, Danica said it so eloquently, but I think that the idea of critical love is so important.
That this is not about shame or blame because we are all fish in the water of what we have inherited.
It is in the groundwater that we are taking in, and it forms what we think normal is.
And it extends to very simple practices and processes, right? So how we treat often those who are unable to pay for health care or have insurance that is less good, say, or it's public insurance on Medicaid, and who we think We saw international policy, who is deserving, and whether we as a society pay for that in the healthcare system that often translates to how well people feel welcomed, whether we think it's okay for people to be waiting in long lines.
very, very interesting perspective to understand that we all are really a part of a larger system here that's at play.
And I've understood that in the work that I do as a health equity consultant.
But to your point, it's not that health professions schools generally are teaching these types of philosophies about how the system itself was built and operates.
And so if you could both just share the most common ways that you feel like healthcare organizations misunderstand systemic racism, that would be great.
And I think the way that organizations and systems understand it is similar to the way that individuals understand it, because organizations and systems are made up of people.
And so, as was alluded to, often the default when we think about racism is the interpersonal, the mean acts of bigotry, hatred, bias, those sorts of things that you see.
And so I think that's one of the bigger pieces is the focus on individual acts rather than on the system and structures, not because of ill intent or ill will on anyone's part, but just we're not necessarily taught and trained to see that the emperor has no clothes on.
And the other piece I would say is something that has really resonated with me was to work with Justice Squared and why I just was so honored to be a part of this.
It was a difference that I see in other work that I've been a part of is that ability to see ourselves and how we are complicit.
And so one of our Guiding images is a double helix, the two strands of the DNA.
And so this idea of I can't change the world unless I'm willing to be changed myself.
And so I think that's often a part as well within a university, within a health care space.
We're often looking out the window and seeing what we can change out there and who needs fixing.
But rarely is there the mirror that's turned on self to be as one of our equity consultants, Joyce Jane said, to become critical lovers of ourselves and our systems.
I just, I mean, Danica said it so eloquently, but I think that the idea of critical love is so important.
That this is not about shame or blame because we are all fish in the water of what we have inherited.
It is in the groundwater that we are taking in, and it forms what we think normal is.
And it extends to very simple practices and processes, right? So how we treat often those who are unable to pay for health care or have insurance that is less good, say, or it's public insurance on Medicaid, and who we think We saw international policy, who is deserving, and whether we as a society pay for that in the healthcare system that often translates to how well people feel welcomed, whether we think it's okay for people to be waiting in long lines.
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