Beyond the Numbers with Bev Wakefield
Jul 30, 2026 · 1 hr 6 min · 10 segments
AI is changing business faster than most leaders realise. But according to AI strategist and *The Human Business* author Ben Afia, the biggest risk isn't being replaced by AI – it's becoming…
Ben AfiaGuest
Bev WakefieldHost
I think there's a huge thing with that, isn't there? I think a lot of people stand behind jargon.
I can always remember a marketing person telling me that you needed to know all the answers and to be very, you know, say the right words, that kind of thing.
But again, that's not being authentic then, is it? Or it's not kind of actually resonating with someone.
I mean, the big disconnect that I've felt is so a lot of my work's been with larger businesses.
And so what tends to happen is they will work with a fancy brand strategy agency and they'll come up with a fancy idea for the advertising.
but those agencies aren't necessarily thinking about how do people on the front line understand it and relate to it so it but actually what shapes your experience as a customer is what happens when you pick up the phone or what happens in those emails and those customers those service emails and when you're on web chat those are the interactions for a service brand that really build your understanding of what a customer stands for yeah the position they take in your mind And so, yeah, you can do the advertising, fine.
But if it's not consistent with what happens in customer service, then you don't have a coherent brand.
And I was just about to say, so you've worked with incredibly big companies doing this.
And I imagine that's really challenging, being able to get the tone of voice from what perhaps they're perceiving as a marketing perspective to filter all the way through.
So I use an approach called appreciative inquiry, which is... about getting people telling stories of times that have been at their best at work.
And the general idea is that if you create something and try and force people to do something, they'll tend to push back, they'll tend to resist.
And what I've noticed is when I'm training people in customer service and even in marketing teams, if they don't believe in the brand, they don't believe in the story, they just won't change.
I think there's a huge thing with that, isn't there? I think a lot of people stand behind jargon.
I can always remember a marketing person telling me that you needed to know all the answers and to be very, you know, say the right words, that kind of thing.
But again, that's not being authentic then, is it? Or it's not kind of actually resonating with someone.
I mean, the big disconnect that I've felt is so a lot of my work's been with larger businesses.
And so what tends to happen is they will work with a fancy brand strategy agency and they'll come up with a fancy idea for the advertising.
but those agencies aren't necessarily thinking about how do people on the front line understand it and relate to it so it but actually what shapes your experience as a customer is what happens when you pick up the phone or what happens in those emails and those customers those service emails and when you're on web chat those are the interactions for a service brand that really build your understanding of what a customer stands for yeah the position they take in your mind And so, yeah, you can do the advertising, fine.
But if it's not consistent with what happens in customer service, then you don't have a coherent brand.
And I was just about to say, so you've worked with incredibly big companies doing this.
And I imagine that's really challenging, being able to get the tone of voice from what perhaps they're perceiving as a marketing perspective to filter all the way through.
So I use an approach called appreciative inquiry, which is... about getting people telling stories of times that have been at their best at work.
And the general idea is that if you create something and try and force people to do something, they'll tend to push back, they'll tend to resist.
And what I've noticed is when I'm training people in customer service and even in marketing teams, if they don't believe in the brand, they don't believe in the story, they just won't change.
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