Another Way, by Lawrence Lessig
Jul 23, 2026 · 1 hr 17 min · 10 segments
To read Robertson's research, visit: https://equalcitizens.us/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/2025\_02\_26\_\_53\_3\_\_Exhibit\_4\_\_\_Christopher\_Robertson\_Declaration-1.pdf For more information about…
Larry LessigHostChris RobertsonGuest
This is the fifth episode of season eight of the podcast, Another Way, produced by equalcitizens.us.
In this season, we've been considering a case that we are helping to litigate that will end super PACs.
Sounds crazy, I know, but I am, even though as cynical as anyone else, I am increasingly confident that this Supreme Court will apply its principles consistently in a way that will lead it to conclude that super PACs can be limited, not by overturning Citizens United, not by going back on anything they've ever said, indeed by embracing the logic of Citizens United.
And in this episode, we're going to talk about another part of that original Supreme Court test.
Because in Buckley versus Valeo, which the last episode suggested has no foundation in the original meaning of the Constitution, but we're going to put that aside for now.
In that opinion, the Supreme Court said that what the state and Congress can regulate is is to avoid what they said is corruption, and by corruption they meant quid pro quo corruption, this for that corruption, or the appearance of corruption.
Now, when you say appearance of corruption, that raises the question, what is corruption? So we're going to think about this in the narrowest way possible, the appearance of quid pro quo corruption.
But on the episode today, Chris Robertson, who is a law professor but also has a PhD in serious science that helps him be able to analyze these questions in a serious and scientific way, Chris developed a strategy for trying to measure appearance of quid pro quo corruption, to find a way to say whether a people are likely to see a system as corrupt based on the amount of money you're allowed to contribute to candidates in that system.
It's really an elegant set of experiments that he pulled together, and he submitted them in a submission in the district court.
to lay out an understanding of the appearance of corruption that will give the court a way to make sense of that vague term and to see why rules like the one Maine passed, 600,000 Mainers passed in the 2024 initiative, actually make sense of the standard of the appearance of corruption.
Read the full transcript.
Create an account to read the whole episode, search across every transcript, and follow the shows you care about.
This is the fifth episode of season eight of the podcast, Another Way, produced by equalcitizens.us.
In this season, we've been considering a case that we are helping to litigate that will end super PACs.
Sounds crazy, I know, but I am, even though as cynical as anyone else, I am increasingly confident that this Supreme Court will apply its principles consistently in a way that will lead it to conclude that super PACs can be limited, not by overturning Citizens United, not by going back on anything they've ever said, indeed by embracing the logic of Citizens United.
And in this episode, we're going to talk about another part of that original Supreme Court test.
Because in Buckley versus Valeo, which the last episode suggested has no foundation in the original meaning of the Constitution, but we're going to put that aside for now.
In that opinion, the Supreme Court said that what the state and Congress can regulate is is to avoid what they said is corruption, and by corruption they meant quid pro quo corruption, this for that corruption, or the appearance of corruption.
Now, when you say appearance of corruption, that raises the question, what is corruption? So we're going to think about this in the narrowest way possible, the appearance of quid pro quo corruption.
But on the episode today, Chris Robertson, who is a law professor but also has a PhD in serious science that helps him be able to analyze these questions in a serious and scientific way, Chris developed a strategy for trying to measure appearance of quid pro quo corruption, to find a way to say whether a people are likely to see a system as corrupt based on the amount of money you're allowed to contribute to candidates in that system.
It's really an elegant set of experiments that he pulled together, and he submitted them in a submission in the district court.
to lay out an understanding of the appearance of corruption that will give the court a way to make sense of that vague term and to see why rules like the one Maine passed, 600,000 Mainers passed in the 2024 initiative, actually make sense of the standard of the appearance of corruption.