Jul 7, 2026 · 1 hr 47 min · 18 segments
Leonardo Mercado, known as The Peyote Lorax, joins me for Episode 209 to talk about the ecological and legal crisis threatening peyote, the sacred cactus at the center of Native American Church…
Leonardo MercadoGuestJames W. JessoHostSo to start us off maybe on like the botanical/ecological side of things, what is peyote?

Um, because my most genuine answer, uh, that I don't feel weird saying because it's true, but I feel weird saying because it's kinda not often expected.

I was born, raised here, still in the Sonoran Desert after being in a lot of other places.

And there's, uh, the energetics that go with the desert where things appear harsh.

Um, and yet This peyote is humbly growing under these shrubs out there, somehow maintaining and surviving with the droughts and the heats and the, even the freezes and the, uh, the predation of thirsty, hungry animals, and somehow they make it.

Well, when you eat that, especially in that situation, it shows you how to live out there.

And to really answer your question, I kinda get my hackles just reflexively raised w- every time pretty much that peyote is brought into discussion as part of a list of psychedelics purely.

Because it's kind of like a very, what, reductionistic way of, of just, uh, uh, tunnel visioning what it actually is.

So, uh, in the larger sense, I do, uh, consider it for myself more of a spiritual food, and I live in the desert.

[laughs] So beyond that, [clears throat] because of its, like, meditative value, its, uh, consciousness clarifying, uh, like spiritually, uh, polishing [laughs] your spiritual lens somehow in this, in this really actual subtle way.

So I guess what I'm saying is it's not necessarily having an action that feels psychedelic.

Uh, it's, it's a very-- It can be a very gentle experience from which you can't visually or otherwise tell that you supposedly have ingested a psychedelic.
So to start us off maybe on like the botanical/ecological side of things, what is peyote?

Um, because my most genuine answer, uh, that I don't feel weird saying because it's true, but I feel weird saying because it's kinda not often expected.

I was born, raised here, still in the Sonoran Desert after being in a lot of other places.

And there's, uh, the energetics that go with the desert where things appear harsh.

Um, and yet This peyote is humbly growing under these shrubs out there, somehow maintaining and surviving with the droughts and the heats and the, even the freezes and the, uh, the predation of thirsty, hungry animals, and somehow they make it.

Well, when you eat that, especially in that situation, it shows you how to live out there.

And to really answer your question, I kinda get my hackles just reflexively raised w- every time pretty much that peyote is brought into discussion as part of a list of psychedelics purely.

Because it's kind of like a very, what, reductionistic way of, of just, uh, uh, tunnel visioning what it actually is.

So, uh, in the larger sense, I do, uh, consider it for myself more of a spiritual food, and I live in the desert.

[laughs] So beyond that, [clears throat] because of its, like, meditative value, its, uh, consciousness clarifying, uh, like spiritually, uh, polishing [laughs] your spiritual lens somehow in this, in this really actual subtle way.

So I guess what I'm saying is it's not necessarily having an action that feels psychedelic.

Uh, it's, it's a very-- It can be a very gentle experience from which you can't visually or otherwise tell that you supposedly have ingested a psychedelic.
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