They're coming back, you know?

Yeah.

Sitting with our discomfort and, like you said, all of those parts, yeah, I love.

It's so lonely.

And I-- what stood out to me is just, yeah, this, this sense of, I think for all of us, you know, life is a series of decisions, but especially with infidelity of, you know, I need to decide, am I gonna give my mate time? Are they worth time, you know, to give them to try to change and repent, you know, restore, take ownership? Um, sometimes for somebody that's acted out, right? Do I want to try to pursue life of sobriety, you know, go back to my true self? All kinds of decisions.

I've always been struck in what stood out to me, what you said, Jeremy, is this idea, if I make a decision, then right, it's gonna give me that feeling I want, and it, it's not true.

What I hear is, you know, we have to work through the feelings to get the clarity to then make the decision.

I stole your word.

Thank you."

I appreciate what's been said, and, and then I can talk to this question, to this listener, but maybe all of our listeners.

I think, um, we're saying that, you know, abuse is not a marriage problem.

That's always an individual problem.

And there's some overlap, I think, in what we do.

Um, and, you know, this particular question, I think, is exactly why we've been doing this episode.

And for this listener, everything Dr. Hawkins, John, Tracy has said, this applies here.

I won't do it again."

It is hard to know what to do with that energy.

Somehow we can go through life and we can feel anger, but I, I heard this part and I resonated with it, that I can kept control of my head and my emotions.

And so just maybe some sparks of anger.

And then all of a sudden when maybe you discover something or you find out it's such a blow in violation with betrayal that it explodes into this just real, you know, attach-attachment rupture, this disconnection from your body.

And so then just hearing like, "I feel so out of control.

What do I do now?" with the first time, you know, you feel this rage.

And I know we all have stories of that.

It's a way out.

I mean, I use the word explanations, and I don't know what word she used, but to me, there's a big different, a big difference between the word explanation maybe, uh, kind of ex- but, versus reason, 'cause reason feels more blaming to me.

I just wanna go on record that there is never enough reason, explanation, justification for the betrayal of your marriage in this way, ever.

And we all believe that.

Uh, as far as it somehow being the fault of the other, of the betrayed person, ever.

What I hear in this is a little bit of a time zone problem.

I think you're both in a different time zone as far as the infidelity.

Because as far as your wife, she is, she's been living 18 years since then, 'cause she knows everything.

He needs help.

But that was kind of the call to turn, and for me, it was a real tangible place of when we talk about grief, just allowing that, just really silence, solitude, sadness, sorrow.

And even for the betrayed, I think you have to grieve, you know, not only who you thought your spouse was, but who you thought you were.

You can then look back and see all the red flags or the codependency or the lack of boundaries or the, w- the d- maybe, you know, you start blaming yourself because you were too distant in the marriage, whatever it is.

You've gotta grieve all the components that maybe kinda came to this.

But I just gotta say here, there's a big difference between grieving without hope and grieving with hope.

And one, uh, it's, it's just too scary.

Speaking of grief just reminds me of, uh, [clears throat] when I was younger, so that was a long time ago, had some friends, and their daughter had just had her second baby, and one of those flash floods came through San Antonio, and she went missing, and her daddy found her body in a tree two days later.

You know, so sometimes, like, having that courage to, to really embrace in a completely new reality means we have to grieveThe comfort of our old [laughs], you know, illusions in a sense.