And it just makes me feel like, you know, it lets me know that I have a bigger impact for me, at least when I'm able to forgive.

I had to really slow things down.

Because being in the Christian community, you know, I was hearing forgive, forgive, forgive.

And I had to kinda get curious about what is forgiveness and what it isn't because it felt like somebody saying, "Walk through this steel wall." I wanna be on the other side.

You want to be free.

You don't want to be carrying revenge, and you don't want them to be living rent-free in your head, but it's so hard to know how to get there, and it felt so impossible.

So I started looking at what forgiveness wasn't, and one of the things was it doesn't mean you're healed.

Um, and, you know, I just, I hate to see people spending their life that way.

There's kind of a quick, quick synopsis.

I'll jump in here because, uh, I have a little bit of a foot in both camps and have dealt with the narcissistic population also.

And, you know, when you say the immaturity, the little boy, um, I have often found that when I'm working with this population that they don't know it.

It's very hidden.

In fact, they are very blind to their behavior behind closed doors.

They really don't see it.

And it's like, yeah, but they can behave with other people.

I would say the large majority of the people that we see, both men and women on the faithful-

What are other ways people can channel?

Even in my days of counseling, my therapist, he had a lot of pillows.

And it, it was so awkward, and he was, "Go, go scream.

Scream as loud as you can until your, you know, voice is done and scream in that pillow." And just, I, I can tell you that was really uncomfortable, um, to even practice that when I couldn't even access that emotion because even what I hear is, you know, it's a reaction.

And we're really good at expressing it in the moment when it's a reaction, but then to say, "Oh, wait, it's still there.

I've gotta deal with it." And so even that practice, it was so weird, but I can tell you, felt pretty good.

[laughs] I had a client who loved to break things.

[laughs] I'm just angry.

You know, some of us still have kids that we have to take care of and get off to school every day, and like how in the world are we supposed to act like everything is just, like normal life is going on again when our whole reality has been upended?

Yeah, there's really [clears throat] you know you're in this disenfranchised form of grief, which is unexpected.

It's hard to put a category to it because, you know, there's not gonna be a Hallmark card for what you're going through.

Like, unfortunately, there's a lot of country songs written about it, but there's just no card to talk about just the shame and the isolation of what the grief looks like.

And we talk about, you know, for those out there that don't even know, like the f- the formal Kübler-Ross stages of grief.

I, I've always just said this.

I, I think she did great work, but sometimes, if I'm honest, I think she maybe missed one of the stages that goes throughout.

But that's one thing that sometimes can help a little when there's somebody who's pretty locked up and not sharing their feelings.