Today's Business Leaders with Gabe Arnold
Oct 20, 2026 · 47 min · 7 segments
What if the toxic leadership patterns you experienced early in your career are the same ones you're unknowingly repeating today? Dr. Joey Fawcett went from being cussed out at a radio station to…
Joey FawcettGuest
Gabe ArnoldHost
What, what else did you learn over the years and what, what led you to the point where you're at today where you have your own organization?

It was a huge learning curve because as much as I hated that experience and, and just really despised working in that toxic work culture, what I found was that I was in it long enough so that it became familiar, and typically our brains follow familiar paths, even if they're miserable paths.

So I found myself, when I got in a position of, uh, later at the next station group I worked for, when I found myself there in a position of leadership as actually a program director and a music director, I found myself repeating the same mistakes that I had experienced.

Well, yeah, I will say it had become a default, unintentional, but that didn't matter.

Whether the consequences are intended or unintended, Gabe, I, you know, we're still responsible for them inasmuch as our behavior prompts them.

I was just mismatched and just didn't, wasn't comfortable within my identity, and I think that's really important for leaders.

In fact, I wrote a little book called "Leader's Soul," which helps leaders really examine who they are and this whole identity question and, and, uh, living out of their best giftedness and, but much more than that, just play into their strengths and seeing how they can team around the, the weaknesses that they might have or the opportunities for growth, as I like to call them, being a work positive kind of guy.

So that was my next big growth, personal growth curve, that personal development curve that benefited me as a leader going forward was I just, just kept my, my peop- my team wasn't either, A, interested in what we were doing, which is always easy to blame the team.

"They're just at a 40-year low." Yeah, okay, it might be, but what are you doing to, to drive engagement and to...

So I, I just moved more out of my judgmental control and command head space, which is what I had experienced so much of, and moved more into an emoti- we didn't call it this then, but into more of an emotionally intelligent space where I-

I mean, I wouldn't have wanted to work for me, but, and that realization drew me up by the short hairs.

What, what else did you learn over the years and what, what led you to the point where you're at today where you have your own organization?

It was a huge learning curve because as much as I hated that experience and, and just really despised working in that toxic work culture, what I found was that I was in it long enough so that it became familiar, and typically our brains follow familiar paths, even if they're miserable paths.

So I found myself, when I got in a position of, uh, later at the next station group I worked for, when I found myself there in a position of leadership as actually a program director and a music director, I found myself repeating the same mistakes that I had experienced.

Well, yeah, I will say it had become a default, unintentional, but that didn't matter.

Whether the consequences are intended or unintended, Gabe, I, you know, we're still responsible for them inasmuch as our behavior prompts them.

I was just mismatched and just didn't, wasn't comfortable within my identity, and I think that's really important for leaders.

In fact, I wrote a little book called "Leader's Soul," which helps leaders really examine who they are and this whole identity question and, and, uh, living out of their best giftedness and, but much more than that, just play into their strengths and seeing how they can team around the, the weaknesses that they might have or the opportunities for growth, as I like to call them, being a work positive kind of guy.

So that was my next big growth, personal growth curve, that personal development curve that benefited me as a leader going forward was I just, just kept my, my peop- my team wasn't either, A, interested in what we were doing, which is always easy to blame the team.

"They're just at a 40-year low." Yeah, okay, it might be, but what are you doing to, to drive engagement and to...

So I, I just moved more out of my judgmental control and command head space, which is what I had experienced so much of, and moved more into an emoti- we didn't call it this then, but into more of an emotionally intelligent space where I-

I mean, I wouldn't have wanted to work for me, but, and that realization drew me up by the short hairs.
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