Episode 127 - Dr Adeel Khan - Beyond Stem Cells: Why MUSE Cells Could Change Regenerative Medicine

Yeah, so when I got involved in that clinical trial, we were using something called mesenchymal stem cells, which was basically we were isolating them from your bone marrow or from the fat, and then we would inject them back into your knee or hip, depending on where the issue was.

And then I started reading and I realized that the guy who made that term, mesenchymal stem cells, actually wrote a paper in 2017 saying, I was wrong.

They are not true stem cells.

We should call them signaling cells.

Medicinal signaling cells is what he wanted people to call them.

But unfortunately, that paper just never got enough attention.

And so the name didn't stick.

So people still call them stem cells.

And so I realized that these are signaling molecules, meaning they can reduce inflammation and they can help.

But I was kind of looking for other options.

And I thought the only other option out there was what are called induced pluripotent stem cells, iPSCs, which were also discovered in Japan, like new cells, which are basically these cells where you can reprogram them and kind of press the reset button.

And when you press the reset button, it makes them young and they kind of lose their identity.

And now they have the ability to turn into anything.

And so those are called iPSCs.

But the issue with iPSCs was the risk of tumors.

And so they were pluripotent, which means they had this ability to turn into anything, but then they had the risk of tumors.

And then on the other end, you have mesenchymal stem cells, which are not true stem cells, but they can reduce inflammation.

And so...

I came across mu cells a few years ago and I went to Japan and met with the scientists who discovered them and realized that the mu cells are the best of both worlds in that they have this pluripotent-like potential of the iPSCs, meaning they can turn into anything.

But they don't have the risk of tumors like iPSCs because they are a subset of mesenchymal stem cells.

So meaning when you take mesenchymal stem cells, 1% to 2% of them are naturally mu cells.

So mu cells are naturally occurring.

They're just a rare subpopulation we didn't know existed until she published the work in 2010.

And then other groups started replicating and realizing that as well.

So basically there's this unique cell.

Yeah, so when I got involved in that clinical trial, we were using something called mesenchymal stem cells, which was basically we were isolating them from your bone marrow or from the fat, and then we would inject them back into your knee or hip, depending on where the issue was.

And then I started reading and I realized that the guy who made that term, mesenchymal stem cells, actually wrote a paper in 2017 saying, I was wrong.

They are not true stem cells.

We should call them signaling cells.

Medicinal signaling cells is what he wanted people to call them.

But unfortunately, that paper just never got enough attention.

And so the name didn't stick.

So people still call them stem cells.

And so I realized that these are signaling molecules, meaning they can reduce inflammation and they can help.

But I was kind of looking for other options.

And I thought the only other option out there was what are called induced pluripotent stem cells, iPSCs, which were also discovered in Japan, like new cells, which are basically these cells where you can reprogram them and kind of press the reset button.

And when you press the reset button, it makes them young and they kind of lose their identity.

And now they have the ability to turn into anything.

And so those are called iPSCs.

But the issue with iPSCs was the risk of tumors.

And so they were pluripotent, which means they had this ability to turn into anything, but then they had the risk of tumors.

And then on the other end, you have mesenchymal stem cells, which are not true stem cells, but they can reduce inflammation.

And so...

I came across mu cells a few years ago and I went to Japan and met with the scientists who discovered them and realized that the mu cells are the best of both worlds in that they have this pluripotent-like potential of the iPSCs, meaning they can turn into anything.

But they don't have the risk of tumors like iPSCs because they are a subset of mesenchymal stem cells.

So meaning when you take mesenchymal stem cells, 1% to 2% of them are naturally mu cells.

So mu cells are naturally occurring.

They're just a rare subpopulation we didn't know existed until she published the work in 2010.

And then other groups started replicating and realizing that as well.

So basically there's this unique cell.