‘The Bear’ Season 5, Episodes 5-8: Every Second Counts

[gentle music] Every outfit starts with a choice.

What am I wearing underneath? Something comfortable, and let's be honest, something that keeps everything looking smooth.

That's where Vanity Fair Lingerie comes in.

Their new smoothing wireless bra has four-way stretch fabric for all-over smoothing, soft lightly lined cups for a natural shape, and no wire comfort that lasts all day.

All-over smooth, all-day comfort.

Vanity Fair Lingerie.

Find yours at Target today.

This episode is brought to you by the Active Cash credit card from Wells Fargo.

That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in.

Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small.

So whether it's buying tickets to the game or grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases.

Say it with me.

The Active Cash credit card from Wells Fargo.

Be a two percenter.

Learn more at wellsfargo.com/activecash.

Terms apply.

[upbeat music]

Welcome to the Prestige TV Podcast.

I'm Charles Holmes, he's Van Lathan.

Together we're known as the Midnight Boys.

Woo.

And we are back for the series finale culmination of The Bear.

It has finally happened after five seasons.

Uh, the beef, The Bear, has narratively closed, even if, spoiler alert, the story rolls on.

Van, they, they decided to do a big gamble this season.

Everybody's like, "Oh, this reminds me of The Pit.

The structure of this is one night in the restaurant.

Can they pull it off? Can they work together?" And in the back of my mind I was like, "Are they gonna land this plane?" And I cannot lie, once episode seven hit, I was like, "They did it."

Van LathanHost2:01

They did it.

Van LathanHost2:02

They did it.

I was, I was actually, I was getting chills.

I'm like, "Okay, this is why we watch TV.

This is why you invest five years of your life.

This is why we love these characters." Seeing them finally get to the summit was some- I did not realize that this show could still make me feel the same way that I felt in season one, season two, in terms of just, like, what it is to see people achieve their dreams in this way.

Van LathanHost2:26

And they did something daring.

Van LathanHost2:28

They ended the show with, by taking Carmy out of it.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost2:34

Carmy had to go find something different.

Van LathanHost2:37

He had to find fulfillment in a different way.

Van LathanHost2:39

He had to leave all of that.

Van LathanHost2:40

You thought that this show was the origin story of Carmy as the best chef in the world, but it was really kinda the origin story of Carmy as a h- healthy person, which is, that journey is kinda just beginning.

What does he say, to, uh, to break patterns, you have to break patterns?

Van LathanHost2:53

Yeah, to break patterns, you have to break patterns.

Van LathanHost2:54

And, like, it, not everyone is suited for the amount of stress and amount of strife and strain that comes along with doing the thing that you actually might be great at.

Van LathanHost3:04

Sometimes health is the path of least resistance, and least resistance for him is doing something totally different.

Van LathanHost3:10

Maybe he cooks for his family at some point.

Van LathanHost3:12

Maybe he cooks for people in his life at some point.

Van LathanHost3:14

But doing it in the way that he was doing it was just gonna eat him alive, and episode seven showed that from him, showed that he could be a part of a team, but also showed that the healthier place for Carmy is outside of the restaurant.

I mean, to your point, that was season one, where he comes back to The Beef and he sees a vision of this place that no one else can.

And I think in a lesser show, they would end on episode seven.

They would end on the thing finally happened.

This man finally achieved his dreams.

And instead of that, it does the more difficult, naughty thing, which is like, yeah, you can achieve your dreams in real life.

There's still something after, and maybe that thing you were chasing and you are achieving is not actually what's going to make you a fully self-actualized person.

Because what I love about this, and we're gonna jump around a lot, is that scene where he tells Syd that they got two stars.

Syd goes back to cooking and the burner, and they shoot it in that same way that we've seen Carmy, where that clicking sound-

Van LathanHost4:24

Mm-hmm

... that igniter sound of the stove represents a certain type of anxiety and the walls closing in.

And for the first time in the show, Syd does something that Carmy almost can't, which is she runs out and hugs him.

Van LathanHost4:37

Mm-hmm.

And there's always been that, that thing in the show is like, "Is this a love story?" And I'm like, "Oh, w- this always was a love story."

Van LathanHost4:44

Yeah.

It was not a romantic love story, but it was Carmy realizing in Syd that actually for me to be my full self, I have to, like, not only step away from this woman, but allow her to take on something because I can't.

Van LathanHost5:03

Yeah.

Van LathanHost5:03

This, this is her thing.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost5:05

It's, like, not really your thing like you thought.

Van LathanHost5:08

Like, it, man, it, some people are Luke and some people are Obi-Wan.

Yeah.

[laughs]

Van LathanHost5:13

You know what I mean? And Obi-Wan at one point was Luke.

Van LathanHost5:15

Obi- Wa- Obi-Wan at one point was the person that everybody was getting ready to go out and live his life as a Jedi.

Van LathanHost5:22

Then what you realize is the greatest contribution you have might be, uh, getting the greatest Jedi of all time ready to go do their thing.

Van LathanHost5:32

It might be giving back.

Van LathanHost5:33

Um, as soon as this show stopped being oriented around Carmy, the depth of the show, and that was by design, by the writers I should say, particularly this season, this, it wasn't oriented around Carmy anymore, and the show got deeper.

Van LathanHost5:48

It got richer, it got fuller-

Yeah

Van LathanHost5:49

... and it got easier to see where they were going and what the purpose of the show was.

Van LathanHost5:52

The purpose of the show was to show, like, what family can build, like, what, what can be built when you invest into people.

Van LathanHost5:59

We had these, um- These sort of examples early on with Carmy being around these chefs.

Van LathanHost6:06

We have this idea of executive chefs being these people who are consumed with this, who can't stop doing it.

Van LathanHost6:11

This is their whole life.

Van LathanHost6:12

Wake up in the morning early to get fish, look at the fish all day.

Van LathanHost6:16

They make a restaurant, they make a dish.

Van LathanHost6:18

"Ah, I don't like this.

Van LathanHost6:19

This sucks." All of this stuff.

Van LathanHost6:21

And at, at some point, the structure that was put into The Beef and the discipline that was put into it was going to be the thing that made it worth being there, and that's not what made it worth being there.

Van LathanHost6:32

What made it worth being there is the questions that it answered for all of the, the people that were involved.

Van LathanHost6:38

The fact that it helped them develop as human beings, that it helped them sometimes find love, answer questions about their life, reconnect with family, like connect with other people.

Van LathanHost6:47

That's the thing that's gonna keep that entity running for a long time, not because Carmy is the dopest cook or 'cause they make the best food in Chicago.

Van LathanHost6:54

And like, I would've never thought that The Bear was going there.

Same.

Van LathanHost6:59

I would've never thought that The Bear was going there.

Van LathanHost7:00

Maybe it always was, or maybe it's something that they learned along the way.

It was heartbreaking, 'cause it was l- one of the most realistic scenes.

Van LathanHost7:07

Mm-hmm.

Which, and it made sense why they had released that long Gary, Indiana, Gary, Indiana episode.

Van LathanHost7:13

Right.

When Richie reveals that he's never been on a plane or out of the country, that revealed something to me not only about him as a character, but what Carmy was returning to.

Van LathanHost7:25

Mm.

Similar when, uh, his mother was going through his journals of, like, New York and the French Laundry, and seeing, like him point and be like, "I stayed on that boat in Copenhagen." You're realizing that for Carmy, he's returning with all of this knowledge about the world to people who haven't been able to travel that.

Even Syd was like, she hasn't been that well-traveled.

And I thought that it was so interesting to end on that note of Carmy talking to the, uh, the leader of that architecture firm-

Van LathanHost7:56

Mm-hmm

... and realizing the actual joy was of him creating a family again.

Van LathanHost8:02

Yeah.

And, like, giving them the tools and empowering them that they're the CDCs, they're the head chefs.

They can go to the Japan.

And I was like, I am glad that they ended up there.

I'm glad they didn't do the thing where it was like, Carmy does the buzzer beater.

He makes the brioche.

He's the hottest fucking chef.

He has to stay in this kitchen, 'cause they can't survive without him.

I love the narrative-

Van LathanHost8:22

Did you think he would change his mind and stay?

I was so scared when he's getting emotional talking to that woman in the office.

Van LathanHost8:29

Mm-hmm.

When he's realizing how much that day, where they finally all come together and sing, I was like, please don't do, don't do the last-minute, "Actually, I need to go back" to The Bear.

Van LathanHost8:43

Mm.

But what I also think the reason why I was almost positive that they wouldn't do that is because Carmy is so resolute, not only in his decision, but he keeps going to Syd, "That's your two stars."

Van LathanHost8:59

Hmm.

He's like, he is very much like, "This is something that you did," which always made me be like, I'm l- he's saying, "I don't need the stars." For someone, like, for his journey, if you think about it, he's already been where Syd has been at.

Van LathanHost9:14

Right.

And it's destroyed him.

What sense would it make for us to have watched five seasons of this, where he's like, "Actually, stars are really, really important"? [laughs]

Van LathanHost9:21

Right, right, right, right, right.

If you know what I mean.

Van LathanHost9:23

Yeah.

Where y- like, to, 'cause also, it, what it proved to me was the reason why the stars can be important for Syd is because when Carmy's like, "The difference between you and me is when I get overwhelmed, I yell at everyone around me.

You come out here and you let it out by yourself."

Van LathanHost9:43

Yeah.

"You don't take it out." I'm like, Syd's the type of person where the stars are not going to go to her head.

Van LathanHost9:49

Right, and she's also the type of person that everybody is going to work freely, better, maybe not perfectly.

Van LathanHost10:00

Even the errors are gonna be useful.

Van LathanHost10:03

She's gonna trust you more, which means there will probably be more mistakes.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost10:07

But those mistakes are going to be out in the open.

Van LathanHost10:12

They're gonna be useful mistakes, because she's gonna be able to correct.

Van LathanHost10:16

Carmy is the kinda guy that kept you on edge so much to where even though he wasn't, like, the sort of fire-breathing dragon, um, that we remember him as now, it's just the intensity that he brought was sometimes suffocating to people, and he didn't let them be their full selves.

Van LathanHost10:31

So he's learning or has learned about himself, and we've also learned that for that particular restaurant, she's the much better leader.

What was interesting to me about the latter half of this season is they give both Syd and Marcus, who are obviously going to be the inheritors of this thing-

Van LathanHost10:49

Right

... with Marcus having won Best New Chef, Syd being in the paper, getting the two stars, being the head chef.

It was very interesting that this season gave them both moments where they became little Carmys.

Van LathanHost11:00

Yeah.

Where the structure of this place was like, oh, it's not that Carmy was born, like, a megalomaniac, "Fucking, I, you gotta do this." It's like, no, the pressure of the star system and the accolades and needing to get the food out on time can turn you into a monster.

Van LathanHost11:20

That's what I tell- yeah, like, he was created that way.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost11:23

Yeah.

And seeing both of them in different wa- seeing how Marcus and Syd, in their own lives and in their own careers, got up to that precipice and had to be like, "Whoa."

Van LathanHost11:36

No, too much.

I got... 'Cause that, to me, is also true to life, where it's like, it's not like you go in one day and you're like, "I'm a fully realized person.

I'm not gonna be toxic in the workplace.

I'm not gonna get it, let it get to me." There's a moment in, um, this season where they're just like, "Okay, now we have to do it all over again." [laughs]

Van LathanHost11:52

Right, yeah.

Like, there's a whole, like, I'm like, yeah, you achieve, like, excellence this one night.

All right.

Van LathanHost11:59

Yep.

Bring it, you gotta bring it again.

I was like, oh.

Van LathanHost12:02

Right.

So they're just at the beginning of something, while Carmy is at the end of something.

Van LathanHost12:06

Yeah.

Van LathanHost12:06

Did you think that the restaurant would close? So, early on I thought that they were getting us ready for the restaurant to close.

Yes.

I, in the, the first four episodes it very much felt like a funeral-

Van LathanHost12:18

Yeah

... which is good writing, where I was like, this alm- because of the structure of the season, I was like, there's Michael Mann in this, there's heist movie in this, but there's also like a sports movie analogy-

Van LathanHost12:28

Mm-hmm

... [laughs] where it was like, like this is our final game.

Van LathanHost12:31

Right.

But then I was like, oh, no, that almost funeral aspect, in the latter half of the season I'm like, this is their final game with Carmy.

Van LathanHost12:39

Mm-hmm.

And that's when I realized where there's a moment in the penultimate episode where Carmy drops the, what was the dish? It was like-

Van LathanHost12:49

The, the lamb?

The lamb, yeah-

Van LathanHost12:50

Yeah

... that, that he had created.

And it's this moment where he's about to melt down.

He's having all these flashbacks to when he was in the kitchen, and the mistakes, and the tr- they think that it's going to be the critic that's gonna give him the stars.

And that was the moment where I was like, oh, this place isn't closing.

Because they all, like Richie's like, "Hey, we got you." Everyone rallies around him.

Van LathanHost13:14

Mm-hmm.

And Carmy has that final moment where he makes the brioche, where like Luca's like, "Dog, that's not even the first time I've seen him pull out something like this." I was like, oh, that was the writers, the creators, Christopher Storer, giving Carmy that final moment of like, hey, yo, you won the championship, but this is no longer your team.

Van LathanHost13:32

Right, it's no longer your team.

Van LathanHost13:34

In that moment, Carmy didn't need correction, he needed care, and that's what the entire restaurant needed from the beginning.

Van LathanHost13:45

He thought that everybody needed correction, but what they needed was care.

Van LathanHost13:49

They needed somebody to believe in them, to invest in them, to listen to them.

Van LathanHost13:53

And so when he got that, it probably was the time in his life that he appreciated it the most.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost14:03

Right? And then it was just, it's just so interesting to go from that, to go from him learning that lesson to him still making the decision to leave.

Van LathanHost14:14

It's a ballsy choice.

Van LathanHost14:16

It's a ballsy choice.

Van LathanHost14:17

'Cause the big things that you set up for here are either, uh, the restaurant closing, um, Carmy leaving, or maybe something happening to someone, which would've been really cheap had they done that, right?

Yeah.

Van LathanHost14:32

Sometimes shows do kinda crazy shit.

Van LathanHost14:34

I really think, I really thought that everybody was gonna leave and go their separate ways, and ways, and be better as people.

Van LathanHost14:43

But what I got in the brilliant seventh episode, and then, or the brilliant penul- penultimate episode, and then the last episode, which was kinda like a postlude almost-

Yeah

Van LathanHost14:54

... like an epilogue.

Van LathanHost14:55

What I got was this, like, this deep understanding of how well I know these characters.

Yep.

Van LathanHost15:01

Like, I didn't realize how well I knew them.

Van LathanHost15:04

Like, how well I knew them, how much they've changed.

Van LathanHost15:08

Richie has changed as much as any character on television-

Yeah.

[laughs]

Van LathanHost15:12

... ever.

Van LathanHost15:13

To see him in a situation where he flying off to go do his thing.

Van LathanHost15:18

He kinda almost got his girl.

Van LathanHost15:20

A little-

No, he did-

Van LathanHost15:21

Yeah

... 'cause Jess was, was right there-

Van LathanHost15:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

... on the plane.

And even that scene where he puts his finger on hers-

Van LathanHost15:26

Yeah

... [laughs] and goes, "I still got it."

Van LathanHost15:28

Right.

Van LathanHost15:28

Yeah.

You, like, you, 'cause I wanted to ask you this.

What was genius about the latter half of the season is you knew what each character wanted.

Van LathanHost15:39

Mm-hmm.

And they had created a moment where it's like we get to see Carmy have his buzzer beater.

We get to see Syd get to bring out that dish that she had made back in the first season, the one that had kinda put The Beef on, back on the map, the, uh, Coca-Cola short ribs.

Van LathanHost15:57

Mm-hmm.

We got to see Marcus start a reconciliation with his dad.

And even someone like Ibra finally, like, get his moment of just like, oh, Carmy's like, "Yeah, do it." I thought that was also brilliant, where there was all of these balls in the air and I was like, wait, how are, like, how are you guys going to land this fucking plane? And to get to the end of the series where it's like, to your point, not only do I know these characters so much, I know what they want and I know how hard they've been fighting for this thing.

I can see the, like even with Tina, the season starts with Tina waking up at The Storm, being like, "This means so much to me.

Like, what am I without this?" I was like, oh, is her lesson gonna be that she'll be fine as a CDC, she could go anywhere? And it actually being that moment where Syd has to be like to Carmy, "She's got this."

Van LathanHost16:50

Mm-hmm.

"We're going to send her dish out there."

Van LathanHost16:52

Mm-hmm.

I was like, oh, that's-

Van LathanHost16:54

And she got to call the shots.

Van LathanHost16:55

She even know how to do it.

Van LathanHost16:56

She was like, sitting down there and is like, "Uh, you guys can take it.

Van LathanHost17:00

Say hi, Chef." Like, it just, like even that, like all of that stuff, watching her come into her own and all of that stuff was just, um, it really, really worked.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost17:10

It really, really worked.

Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound, tirzepatide, may be able to help.

Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced-calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity, or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off.

Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection.

Zepbound contains tirzepatide and should not be used with other tirzepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines.

It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children.

Don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles.

Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2.

Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck.

Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction.

Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems.

Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia, if you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills.

Taking Zepbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar.

Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems.

Talk to your doctor.

Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit Xepbound.lilly.com

This episode is brought to you by Paramount+.

In the world of espionage, truth is a moving target and every decision carries a dangerous consequence.

In The Agency season two, Martian has a new mission as a double agent.

Twice the lies, twice the risk.

The lines between ally and enemy blur like never before, and survival depends on trusting no one.

Starring Michael Fassbender, Jeffrey Wright, Jodie Turner-Smith, and my man Richard Gere.

Don't miss The Agency season two, all episodes now streaming on Paramount+.

[door opening] Evening.

Buyer's remorse.

Buy a new car, I'll be moving in.

Let's get started.

Uh, sorry, I think there's been a mistake.

I bought it from Carvana.

You what?

Yeah.

Great price.

I even have seven days to love it or return it.

So there's no-

No, no buyer's remorse.

More like buyer's rejoice.

Ugh.

I guess I'll let myself out.

Congratulations.

I mean it.

Buyer's rejoice.

Buy your car today on Carvana.

Limitations and exclusions may apply.

See our seven-day return policy at carvana.com

Van LathanHost19:43

Do you think that The Bear did itself a disservice by maybe going one season too long?

Yes.

Van LathanHost19:51

What if...

Van LathanHost19:52

Hmm.

Like, it, it, we, yes.

Where-

Van LathanHost19:55

What if this season was the last season, and it was the last season?

If this season was last season, I do think people would be having a different conversation with it, because your biggest critique about late-stage The Bear, and weirdly, I think the penultimate episode-

Van LathanHost20:12

Mm-hmm

... is poking fun at itself.

The, the penultimate episode is very, very meta, because they have that annoying couple who's back there.

The guy that's like, "Yes, chef.

Yes, chef."

Van LathanHost20:24

Mm-hmm.

Or there's the joke about, um, I think it's Carmy's mom asks, "Are, are Carmy and-"

Van LathanHost20:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's like, "Oh, we have theories." [laughs]

Van LathanHost20:35

Uh-huh.

And it was like, I think that, what I loved about that episode was it was almost Christopher Storer.

I think The Bear could get so self-serious at points, and the previous ser- season got so self-serious, it almost felt like the penultimate episode was Christopher Storer being like, "We can have fun again."

Van LathanHost20:52

Right.

"We can laugh again." Not only do I think this would've been better if it had one less season, I will say with this final season, I don't know how many people are gonna give it a chance, where it's like you do have to stay with the scenes.

'Cause it's almost-

Van LathanHost21:06

You do

...

it is structured more like a movie than it is a season of television.

Van LathanHost21:09

And it's, at times, at the beginning of this season, it wasn't always easy to watch.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost21:13

It was, like, a lot of shit going wrong at all times, a lot of stress and strain on these characters.

Van LathanHost21:18

We haven't even talked about Harry Lennix comes in, like, and plays Marcus' dad.

Van LathanHost21:23

That stuff really worked for me.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost21:26

It was very, very meaningful and moving to me.

Van LathanHost21:29

Like-

Where he cuts the candle-

Van LathanHost21:30

Yes, man

... and Carmy's there.

Van LathanHost21:32

Goddammit.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost21:34

It's like, who are you really cooking for? Like, the reason why this matters is 'cause that's, like, something that you do out of love for someone, but for him, he can, you know, uh, display his genius, and get...

Van LathanHost21:44

Like, it's just this, this underlying theme of family continues to be hammered into The Bear.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost21:50

And that's what, that's enduring for me.

I mean, even when, 'cause at times I was getting a little bit done with the facts of it all.

Van LathanHost22:01

Uh-huh.

But even when fact did get that moment where Richie and everybody's super fucking nervous, like, "Goddamn, he's talking to, he's telling stories," but then you see, see he's charming, he's charming, um, who they think is the restaurant critic.

I was like, "Oh, shit.

Okay."

Van LathanHost22:21

Mm-hmm.

They have, they have landed the plane on each and every single one of these characters.

And what I also think is kind of like a deft piece of writing, and this is what you can do when your show comes back every year, is that plot thread, I remember that plot thread of, like, when Richie makes it snow, and there's that guy sitting there who I'm like, "That's the critic.

That's the star critic," and we did not get it-

Van LathanHost22:46

Mm-hmm

...

in that season.

All we got were the bad reviews.

Van LathanHost22:50

Right.

And for them to bring up the fact that-

Van LathanHost22:52

I had forgotten

...

I, here's the thing.

I knew that, like, instinctually, but to your point, I had forgot that that had never paid off.

I was just like, oh, I guess he had just written the review.

Van LathanHost23:03

Well, when they, when they got the bad review, I, I, I kind of got confused between the review and the stars.

Yes.

Van LathanHost23:12

Like, I was like, "Oh, they got a bad review.

Van LathanHost23:14

Does that mean you don't get your star?" But I, those are two completely different things.

Yeah, those are, those are two con- completely different things.

But to your point, I, once it, like, pops back and that guy popped on screen, it was like, and he started talking about the snow, I was like, "Oh." So I went back to that episode, Scallops-

Van LathanHost23:29

Mm-hmm

... to look at, and I was like, oh, I do remember, because this was the episode where Richie's on his fucking game.

Van LathanHost23:37

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? And, like, even Carmy's, like, pulling the sandwich, and he's, like, cutting it, and he's like, "No, we want them all to share it." Marcus makes the hot cocoa.

It's every...

And, like, even, um, Syd has her moment with the scallop.

And I was like, that to me is genius writing as well.

Van LathanHost23:52

But, but, not to cut you off, but real quick, that is one of the episodes where you thought, you were sure that everything was gonna be okay.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost24:01

You just knew that everything was gonna be okay, and then it wasn't okay.

[laughs]

Van LathanHost24:05

So you thought you had already lost that battle, right? And then to know that everything was kinda okay the entire time.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost24:15

I mean, not really, but in a way, you had already made your impression, you had already done this, and the rest of...

Van LathanHost24:21

I don't know, it did, like, that was really, to me, something that they did really well.

I mean, but isn't that also true to most artistic endeavors, where if you're in the back, if you're in the back of house, if you're the person who's making the thing-

Van LathanHost24:36

Mm-hmm

... you see all the warts, you see how it- ... fucking shitty yesterday was, today was, last week, last month was.

But when you're truly doing it for the love and you're on top of the game, the people in the front of house can't tell.

Van LathanHost24:51

Yeah.

And I was like, that was also interesting, where it was like, oh, the real win, and I think this series has always been toggling between does the recognition matter, do the stars matter?

Van LathanHost25:02

Right.

And I think by hiding that and s- and showing, when Carmy's reliving that night, he's not thinking of, like, "Oh, that was the night we got the star," or, "We thought this person was there." He was like, "No, that's when my team finally gelled."

Van LathanHost25:19

Yep.

"That's when they were the best." And that was on- that was probably the moment where he was like, "Oh, I can actually leave now."

Van LathanHost25:25

Yep.

"I feel good about leaving." Because one of the best moments Syd had, and it's such a little moment, is when Carmy's doing his little Carmy shit, and Tina's trying to help him.

And he's like, "Oh, I can just do it faster myself." And she's like, "She can do it, Carmy."

Van LathanHost25:41

Mm-hmm.

You're like, oh, she is a better leader.

Van LathanHost25:43

Yeah.

This isn't about, Carmy, this isn't about you scoring all the points.

This isn't about showing us how fast you are at plating, how fast you can cut an onion.

This is about empowering everybody around you to be able to do it their fucking selves.

Van LathanHost25:57

When The Bear came out, it was kind of a trendy show.

Van LathanHost26:00

We talked about this-

Yeah

Van LathanHost26:01

...

Van LathanHost26:01

in the last episode.

Van LathanHost26:02

It was a trendy show.

Van LathanHost26:03

It was a show that cut through culturally.

Van LathanHost26:05

And man, it could have, like, rested on that.

Van LathanHost26:11

It could have continued to just be a show about beautiful people making beautiful food.

Van LathanHost26:17

Carmy's love story and all of that stuff, we could have done the whole thing.

Van LathanHost26:21

But they did something more daring in the end, and they, they kinda got away from themselves, and some of the celebrity stuff, and all of that stuff.

Van LathanHost26:27

But it was just deeply emot- emotional and moving at the end of it, because you were just with someone, and you remember sometimes.

Van LathanHost26:36

It's like almost being like with a friend, where you remember, like, how much you have in the tank with them.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost26:42

Like, how long you've been with them.

Van LathanHost26:44

I found myself at the end of the show being way more emotionally invested than I thought I was going to be.

Same.

Like, I, yeah.

Van LathanHost26:51

Like, I wasn't, I, I wasn't even super looking forward to doing this, because we've done these, me and you have done two shows in total.

Van LathanHost27:00

We've done more than that, but for prestige, we've done, we did Atlanta.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost27:05

And then I feel like we might have done, uh, our first time on here might have been actually-

WandaVision

Van LathanHost27:11

...

Van LathanHost27:11

WandaVision.

Van LathanHost27:13

So WandaVision aside, 'cause that would've been on the Midnight Boys had that podcast exist- existed at that time.

Van LathanHost27:18

But us doing this, and having done those two shows specifically, this one felt more pertinent to my life right now.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost27:30

Like, I can understand how everyone feels, and I felt good for them.

Van LathanHost27:34

Atlanta was so avant-garde that at times it was just like, what are they, what crazy shit are they gonna cook up? But man, I'm just happy everybody's okay.

All right, this show is not The Wire, but it's funny how when The Wire comes out, it is not, if you're a true TV head, you knew it was happening, but it's not the most popular show.

People had their problems with the second season.

People had their problems with the last season.

Van LathanHost27:58

Mm-hmm.

But now, not only is it talked about a different way, when you can watch the vision from front to back, you have a different conversation.

And I think when you watch The Bear or Atlanta now in a couple years, and you see the full breadth of it, I think people are going to appreciate the show more.

You're going to be like, "Damn, this did reignite Jeremy Allen White.

This did introduce us to Ayo Edebiri."

Van LathanHost28:26

Right.

"This was the start of Lionel, Lionel Boyce as, like, dramatic actor," you know? I was rewatching some Atlanta episodes recently, and I'm like, "This is so much more enjoyable outside of the take cycle." Like, you appreciate the large swings way more.

Because I think what people, what these shows get to is they start chasing, why isn't this show giving me the same feeling as it did in the first and second season? Why isn't this show the thing that all of my friends are watching? Why are people falling off? And that's-

Van LathanHost28:59

Yeah

... what's different about it, where it's like we're not actually talking about The Bear.

Half the time we're like, "Well, why is it a binge? Is it really a comedy?" Da da da.

Two, three, four years, who gives a fuck about it [laughs] anymore?

Van LathanHost29:10

Yeah.

You know what I mean? And I think it is harder now because less shows, I would not be surprised if third season of something like Widow's Bay, third season of The Pit, people start having these conversations, because you can only be that show for a season or two before everybody's just like, "Well, you guys aren't the center of attention anymore.

You're not the center of culture anymore." I mean, weirdly, it's what we're talking about with something like Supergirl, where it's like, what are these movies now when they're not the center of culture? We're always gonna get Spider-Man.

We're always gonna get Batman.

We're gonna get X-Men.

Are you truly a fan when this thing isn't the epicenter?

Van LathanHost29:50

This sort of mob mentality that gets people both on something and off something is a double-edged sword.

Van LathanHost29:55

It's, it's kind of a thing to where when everyone, the groupthink is just so, uh, poundingly evident now.

Van LathanHost30:03

That's not to say that there weren't certainly things to criticize about The Bear during its run.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost30:08

Um, but, you know, for the people that stuck with it, I think they got a treat.

Van LathanHost30:13

Wanna ask you about one more thing specifically.

Okay.

Van LathanHost30:15

Claire.

She was at the party.

[laughs]

Van LathanHost30:17

She was at the party, but they just fucking kicked the ball away from Claire.

Van LathanHost30:22

There was nothing about Claire Bear's entire deal that ended up being figured out, uh, in this season.

Van LathanHost30:30

Not to me.

Van LathanHost30:31

Like, they, uh, kind of abandoned the Claire and Carmy thing.

Van LathanHost30:34

Or maybe not.

Van LathanHost30:34

Did you expect some kind of resolution?

Yes.

And w- the thing I was s- surprised about is they had been giving us kind of little hints last season about kind of the Richie, Jess romance.

It was very funny that, like, they showed us way more of that-

Van LathanHost30:51

Yeah

... than they did of, like, the romance that took up a fucking entire season and a half.

Van LathanHost30:55

That was like the whole, a whole season and a half was oriented around it.

Van LathanHost30:59

You thought, legitimately, that Claire was Carmy's salvation.

Yes.

Van LathanHost31:05

That, like, if Carmy could just figure shit out with Claire, that he would become a normal person, and then that just kind of, that's not what, what, what, what saved Carmy.

Van LathanHost31:13

What saved Carmy was walking away from the restaurant.

Van LathanHost31:15

But, like, she's just gone.

I do think it is the right creative choice, and that's nothing against that actress.

That's nothing against the Claire plot line.

But when, uh, Syd runs out to hug Carmy, I was like, well, that, that was the central relationship of the show all along.

Van LathanHost31:32

That, that, that's what it was.

And I'm just like, that is the right creative choice because I'm just like, once you add Claire into the mix, it gets a little bit muddled.

Van LathanHost31:40

Yeah.

But I was like, 'cause there was even this moment where, like, Air- Jeremy Allen White holds Ayo's face, and I'm like, "Please don't say they kiss."

Van LathanHost31:47

I thought, I thought that was gonna happen.

Same, but, and I think that there was a reason that hap- But I was like, oh.

To me, that was Christopher Storer being like, "You know what? Let me reorient this," 'cause it is a love story.

I think people wanted this to be a romantic love story, and I think that this was a platonic love story.

This is about someone finding their person in this world, and having that connection, and then that ability to let go.

And where would Claire have fit in this? 'Cause w- we also forget, this is about one night in The Bear.

Van LathanHost32:23

Yeah.

The whole thing about Claire was she was not connected to The Bear.

Van LathanHost32:26

Right.

She was connected to Carmy.

Van LathanHost32:27

Yeah.

And 'cause even it was funny, like, I thought that scene between Carmy and Richie in the, in the freezer was phenomenal.

Like, getting to see these two brothers come together and heal that.

Van LathanHost32:46

Mm-hmm.

That could've been a great place for Claire.

Van LathanHost32:49

Mm-hmm.

Van LathanHost32:51

But it's just-

But that moment-

Van LathanHost32:51

... a bit too much.

Van LathanHost32:52

Yeah.

Yeah, that moment wasn't really about Claire.

That moment wa- What I think was cool narratively is I'm like, Carmy isn't just telling Richie that you can fly, you can travel.

He's saying, like, you can live.

Like, you deserve love.

Like, you just don't have to be this, like, surly single father.

Like, there's more.

Like, you can be a person.

Van LathanHost33:13

Right.

Especially if I'm not around.

Van LathanHost33:15

It was almost he was like he was giving him permission to do it.

And, and that's why I loved where it ended, where I was like, Carmy was giving permission to Syd to be like, "This is your place now.

You serve your food.

You lead these people." Same thing with, like, Richie.

He's like, "Hey, yo, Mikey's gone.

I might, like, I'm still here, but like, bro, you're no one's sidekick.

Go do what you need to do." And to me, to your point that you brought up earlier, that's when the show got deeper.

Van LathanHost33:44

Mm.

Like, I was always worried.

I'm like, what is a final season gonna look like where, like, Jeremy Allen White is not in the center of the frame? And to me, the salvation of the show was realizing like, hey, yo, The Bear was always these people.

Like, look at all these actors.

I'm gonna put them in a position where they're gonna become superstars.

Van LathanHost34:04

Yeah.

You really don't know what they have.

And to me, that's also the defining thing of The Bear.

You could talk as much shit about this show as you want.

The amount of talent that they picked and really truly, like-

Van LathanHost34:17

Cultivated, nurtured, yeah.

I- Ayo was not only front of, like, is not only a superstar, she was in front of the camera and behind the camera.

Van LathanHost34:25

Mm-hmm.

Same thing with Lionel.

You have all these moments, like, where I'm like, oh.

Jeremy Allen was on a successful show for years.

I don't think anybody was just like, "That's a leading man."

Van LathanHost34:36

Mm-hmm.

Not many shows can do that.

Van LathanHost34:39

Yeah, not many shows can do that at all, and not many shows can do that and while landing the plane of their narratives.

Van LathanHost34:46

Shows that send you off in a way that makes you feel not good about leaving, I think a lot of people get that messed up.

Van LathanHost34:56

It's like, you never feel good about leaving your favorite show or a show that you love.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost35:00

But you do wanna feel okay about it.

Van LathanHost35:03

You wanna feel okay to leave, right? You wanna feel okay to get out of this world and, and go do something else or experience something else.

Van LathanHost35:10

You wanna feel okay.

Van LathanHost35:11

And so a lot of times when shows don't work at the end, it's 'cause you don't really feel okay leaving.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost35:17

You feel like there are unanswered questions.

Van LathanHost35:19

You feel like the answers that you got didn't make any sense.

Van LathanHost35:22

You feel like the characters acted in ways that didn't line up o- or align with who they were, and you don't feel o- okay about it.

Van LathanHost35:30

You're like, what is that? Like, what's, what...

Van LathanHost35:32

Like, I want more.

Van LathanHost35:33

Like, why'd that person die? That's not the way that was supposed to go.

Van LathanHost35:36

I legitimately feel okay about leaving this world.

Every, where everyone ended up seemed so true.

Van LathanHost35:44

Mm-hmm.

Where you were just like, to your point, I'm like, I felt this way about the end of something like Atlanta where you're just like, hey, as long as every character ends in a pl- ends at a place where I'm like, it could be tragedy, it could be joy, but this feels true to the show that I've been watching, and it feels true to how many hours I invested with these characters and this family.

Hey, bro.

Like, The Bear, they did it.

I don't care what anybody says.

Van LathanHost36:14

Yeah.

I was just like, yo, they fucking landed the plane.

Van LathanHost36:16

Is there anybody else that you feel like you wanted to see more? Did you wanna see more of the facts? Did you wanna see, is there, is there anything that was left on, uh, the table for you?

The reason I will say no is because that penultimate episode, number seven-

Van LathanHost36:38

Mm-hmm

... hour-long episode did go out of its way to give every single person their win.

Van LathanHost36:47

Mm-hmm.

And the one person who didn't get it, Eira, got it in the finale.

Van LathanHost36:50

Yeah.

Where you were like, oh.

Van LathanHost36:52

That was a great scene.

scene.E- 'cause also, to take a character like Ebra that is almo- I don't wanna say almost forgettable in the first season-

Van LathanHost37:02

Mm-hmm

...

but not even really part of the main, main cast, and give him the actual win, where, like, Carmy is sitting there with, uh, Uncle Jay and is like, "Oh, that's...

Fuck, that's a great idea."

Van LathanHost37:15

Mm-hmm.

Like, giving Ebra the moment where he's the actual person that saves The Bear, and then Carmy telling everybody at that table, "You guys are the actual reason that we keep getting to be able to do this"-

Van LathanHost37:28

Yeah

... is so, uh, smart, because I'm like, it's also true to life.

There's no main characters, and the most talented person is not, is not always the person that's gonna end up saving the day.

Van LathanHost37:42

Right.

The person who's saving the day is, a lot of time, the one that's like, has their hands in the dirt, slinging the fucking sandwiches.

Ebra was actually the one where I was getting a little choked up.

I'm like, "Fuck, my man Ebra finally got that shit." [laughs]

Van LathanHost37:55

Do you remember, too s- R- Richie, do you remember the scene, I think it's from Season 1, maybe 2, where Richie and, uh, Syd run into each other?

Yeah.

Van LathanHost38:07

Remember that scene?

Wait, was that when, um, I think that was also the penultimate episode, where she accidentally, uh, stabs-

Van LathanHost38:14

Right

...

Richie with the knife.

Yep.

Van LathanHost38:15

Right.

Van LathanHost38:16

So think about Richie's response to a mistake, and the intensity of that episode, and how that mistake, like, shaped, like, the environment of that scene.

Yeah.

Van LathanHost38:26

And then think about how Richie reacts when Carmy drops the lamb.

Van LathanHost38:32

That is a full character.

Van LathanHost38:37

That's, this guy makes a bad situation worse.

Van LathanHost38:41

He makes-

Yeah

Van LathanHost38:41

... a tense situation more tense.

Van LathanHost38:43

This guy is, uh, might be good at his job.

Van LathanHost38:47

He can diffuse a situation, but he's not a good caretaker, right? Think about the way Richie diffuses the situation in the first episode.

Van LathanHost38:55

They're lining up.

Van LathanHost38:56

He comes out with a gun, you snot-averse motherfuckers.

[laughs]

Van LathanHost38:59

You know what I mean? By the end, he's using his words, he's using his emotions, he's using his connection to get through it.

Van LathanHost39:06

Like, those types of journeys is what makes a good, developed television show, and makes you remember characters for a long time.

Man, that's a perfect place to end it, 'cause I couldn't agree more.

Yo, thank y'all for everyone out there who's been on-

Van LathanHost39:20

The Bear

... been at this restaurant with us for, uh, what, four years now?

Van LathanHost39:25

Four years.

Hell yeah, and you know what, special, special, special shout-out to the producer who has seen us through-

Van LathanHost39:33

Extraordinaire

...

this all, literally, like, what? He's been, he's been our Syd.

Van LathanHost39:38

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

Van LathanHost39:39

He's our Syd.

Yo, shout-out Kai Grady for, uh, always killing it behind, uh, the boards.

Hey, yo, The Bear did it.

Shout-out to Prestige TV Podcast.

Hey, make sure you tap in if you wanna hear more.

Midnight Boys, we come out every Wednesday.

Tap into Higher Learning twice a week.

Hey, y'all, we'll see y'all very soon.

Boo.

Van LathanHost40:00

Boo.

Van LathanHost40:00

[upbeat music]

This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome.

You think you know a browser, but Gemini in Chrome, that's new.

It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration blog, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.

Gemini in Chrome is here for it.

Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome.

Check responses, setup required, compatibility and availability varies.

18 plus.

Now at Smith's, your points add up to more ways to save every trip.

Use them your way to take dollars off groceries at checkout, or save at the pump.

You can even save up to $35 on your next fill-up.

Same points, more choices.

And with low prices on fresh, quality food, plus digital and personalized offers tailored to how you shop, your dollar goes further.

Redeem your points online or in the app.

Smith's: Fresh for everyone.

Restrictions apply.

See site or store for details