Jul 13, 2026 · 46 min · 12 segments
Jay Papasan talks with Steve Kamb, founder of Nerd Fitness and author of *How to Try Again,* about what it takes to change course. Steve shares his PACT framework: Pause, Accept, Change, and Try, and…
Jay PapasanHost
It's a nice and simple one, so, um, I like simple frameworks 'cause people can actually live them versus these really, like, I need a spreadsheet.
Where's my spreadsheet? Um, but I think in the beginning, I guess, if you're going to try again, which to me I keep using the word change, it just means that you failed at something, and that could be I picked the wrong job, I picked the wrong something and I need to pick again, or it could be I know what I wanna do and I just can't seem to do it.
The one that, that's most interesting to me, and I would imagine most listeners, is, like, the this isn't working, and my usual tactic of just gritting my teeth and trying harder is somehow not, not only not working but, like, actively making things worse.
Making me feel worse because th- like, my one tactic that, and you know, like, my tried and true strategy of, like, just work your way through this is not working anymore.
And I think, uh, that's what I had to navigate personally while writing it professionally.
It's so easy for me to just get lost in it, and when that stops working, it's, like, almost like an identity crisis, right?
Like, they're, they found the thing that they can do well, they start growing, and then suddenly this thing just went off the rails.
It's a nice and simple one, so, um, I like simple frameworks 'cause people can actually live them versus these really, like, I need a spreadsheet.
Where's my spreadsheet? Um, but I think in the beginning, I guess, if you're going to try again, which to me I keep using the word change, it just means that you failed at something, and that could be I picked the wrong job, I picked the wrong something and I need to pick again, or it could be I know what I wanna do and I just can't seem to do it.
The one that, that's most interesting to me, and I would imagine most listeners, is, like, the this isn't working, and my usual tactic of just gritting my teeth and trying harder is somehow not, not only not working but, like, actively making things worse.
Making me feel worse because th- like, my one tactic that, and you know, like, my tried and true strategy of, like, just work your way through this is not working anymore.
And I think, uh, that's what I had to navigate personally while writing it professionally.
It's so easy for me to just get lost in it, and when that stops working, it's, like, almost like an identity crisis, right?
Like, they're, they found the thing that they can do well, they start growing, and then suddenly this thing just went off the rails.
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