Sep 23, 2026 · 30 min · 10 segments
This week, Leah sits down with bestselling author, researcher, and mind-body medicine expert Dr. Dawson Church to explore the intersection of science, consciousness, and spirituality. They dig into…
Dawson ChurchGuest
Leah GuyHost
And as soon as your PR person sent me your information, in fact, I've known of you and I don't know if we've met along the way, maybe not, but our paths have crossed, no doubt, over the course of the past 30 years.
And I know your latest one, Spiritual Intelligence, just came out in May of this year.
And the book that I'm writing has so much to do with coming into the reality and not spiritual bypassing and not magical thinking and, you know, coming into a more embodied state of humanness so that we can, in fact, evolve and take responsibility for that.
Well, the remarkable thing that's happened in the last 30 or 40 years in science is we've developed the tools to measure the effects of transcendent experiences.
Like when I was meditating when I was a teenager and when we were doing energy medicine and practices like that, decades ago, the belief was that these were placebo, these made me feel better, but they weren't really biologically or physically active.
Now that we can put people into MRI scanners and attach them to EEGs, we can measure their stress hormones, we can measure their enzymes and neurotransmitters in their bodies, we're realizing that these practices have not just measurable effects on the body, they have massive effects on the body.
And in one example in spiritual intelligence I give, I have a lot of science in there, but a lot of case histories as well of people.
So there's stories there of Alzheimer's patients and people who practice these things.
And I just want to note, it brings me a little chuckle because so many of the times when I talk to people in the spiritual world and meditators and so forth, you have so much energy, whereas so many of these other people You match me, I think, you know, we talk quickly, we have this energy and so many long-term meditators and people in the healing circle, everyone's trying to be nice and quiet and I get
And as soon as your PR person sent me your information, in fact, I've known of you and I don't know if we've met along the way, maybe not, but our paths have crossed, no doubt, over the course of the past 30 years.
And I know your latest one, Spiritual Intelligence, just came out in May of this year.
And the book that I'm writing has so much to do with coming into the reality and not spiritual bypassing and not magical thinking and, you know, coming into a more embodied state of humanness so that we can, in fact, evolve and take responsibility for that.
Well, the remarkable thing that's happened in the last 30 or 40 years in science is we've developed the tools to measure the effects of transcendent experiences.
Like when I was meditating when I was a teenager and when we were doing energy medicine and practices like that, decades ago, the belief was that these were placebo, these made me feel better, but they weren't really biologically or physically active.
Now that we can put people into MRI scanners and attach them to EEGs, we can measure their stress hormones, we can measure their enzymes and neurotransmitters in their bodies, we're realizing that these practices have not just measurable effects on the body, they have massive effects on the body.
And in one example in spiritual intelligence I give, I have a lot of science in there, but a lot of case histories as well of people.
So there's stories there of Alzheimer's patients and people who practice these things.
And I just want to note, it brings me a little chuckle because so many of the times when I talk to people in the spiritual world and meditators and so forth, you have so much energy, whereas so many of these other people You match me, I think, you know, we talk quickly, we have this energy and so many long-term meditators and people in the healing circle, everyone's trying to be nice and quiet and I get
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