Joiners, Movers & Leavers: Why IT and HR Must Work Together – a conversation with Matt Chapman

As I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about the various different people that I've worked with in different parts of the world.

and thinking about how their behavior has impacted other people and thinking about are they in that fight or flight or freeze situation or are they actually being managers?

Well, tell me more.

We didn't talk about how you ended up in Costa Rica, actually.

So how did you end up going from Canada to Costa Rica?

The long and the short of that was after I pivoted out of engineering, I became a coach and I never liked snow.

I've never met a Canadian who did.

Yeah, and so once I was in coaching, actually we were working with a bunch of global companies and I didn't even actually have any clients in Canada.

And so that led me to choosing with my wife to move down here.

And we've been down here two and a half years now.

And actually, funnily enough, now I have Canadian clients.

Right, yes.

I hear it's a beautiful place.

The question about, was this manager managing...

Or were they in fight, flight or freeze? I suppose in some ways, because there was always something negative for them to say, they never had any praise for anyone unless it felt like you were being praised because they were then going to ask you for something else.

There was never praise just for praise's sake.

There was nothing positive feedback.

It was constantly on edge, constantly criticizing, constantly swearing.

And that, I suppose, when I listen to you talk, is making me think that they were in a constant fight, flight, or freeze situation rather than actually being a manager, being a leader.

And you've only been talking for a couple of minutes, but you've made me think about those managers that I've worked with who were, I think now, clearly struggling because they were in a fight, flight, or freeze situation.

type mode all the time.

And I suppose instead of criticizing those people, we should be thinking, how can we be more supportive of them?

Yes.

And this is the key, Michael.

Nobody sets out to be a bad leader.

As I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about the various different people that I've worked with in different parts of the world.

and thinking about how their behavior has impacted other people and thinking about are they in that fight or flight or freeze situation or are they actually being managers?

Well, tell me more.

We didn't talk about how you ended up in Costa Rica, actually.

So how did you end up going from Canada to Costa Rica?

The long and the short of that was after I pivoted out of engineering, I became a coach and I never liked snow.

I've never met a Canadian who did.

Yeah, and so once I was in coaching, actually we were working with a bunch of global companies and I didn't even actually have any clients in Canada.

And so that led me to choosing with my wife to move down here.

And we've been down here two and a half years now.

And actually, funnily enough, now I have Canadian clients.

Right, yes.

I hear it's a beautiful place.

The question about, was this manager managing...

Or were they in fight, flight or freeze? I suppose in some ways, because there was always something negative for them to say, they never had any praise for anyone unless it felt like you were being praised because they were then going to ask you for something else.

There was never praise just for praise's sake.

There was nothing positive feedback.

It was constantly on edge, constantly criticizing, constantly swearing.

And that, I suppose, when I listen to you talk, is making me think that they were in a constant fight, flight, or freeze situation rather than actually being a manager, being a leader.

And you've only been talking for a couple of minutes, but you've made me think about those managers that I've worked with who were, I think now, clearly struggling because they were in a fight, flight, or freeze situation.

type mode all the time.

And I suppose instead of criticizing those people, we should be thinking, how can we be more supportive of them?

Yes.

And this is the key, Michael.

Nobody sets out to be a bad leader.