Jul 23, 2026 · 1 hr 3 min · 21 segments
In Cast Out: A Call For A Forgiving Society in an Age of Incarceration (Beacon Press, 2026), civil rights lawyer Joseph Margulies insists that those who…
Joseph MarguliesGuestChristina GesslerHost
If you just look at the things that people write down on websites and on business cards, it will say that I'm a lawyer, I'm a professor at Cornell.

But I think for these purposes, what I would describe myself as someone who has, as a lawyer for a long time, nearly 40 years, represented folks who have been charged with or otherwise accused of the most serious crimes, many of whom were responsible for those crimes.

And my great frustration has been to the experience of being with folks who have committed great wrongs, some of whom have been in prison for decades, decades, or some of whom have been condemned to die.

And I represent them in capital proceedings to try to prevent their execution.

is the thing that I'm most grateful for in my career is the realization that in all the ways that matter, the folks I represent are no different from I am, and I am no different from them.

And from that, I have for many years distilled my personal philosophy down to eight words, which is that there is no them, there is only us.

And this book is my attempt to distill into the pages of a short book that philosophy.

If you just look at the things that people write down on websites and on business cards, it will say that I'm a lawyer, I'm a professor at Cornell.

But I think for these purposes, what I would describe myself as someone who has, as a lawyer for a long time, nearly 40 years, represented folks who have been charged with or otherwise accused of the most serious crimes, many of whom were responsible for those crimes.

And my great frustration has been to the experience of being with folks who have committed great wrongs, some of whom have been in prison for decades, decades, or some of whom have been condemned to die.

And I represent them in capital proceedings to try to prevent their execution.

is the thing that I'm most grateful for in my career is the realization that in all the ways that matter, the folks I represent are no different from I am, and I am no different from them.

And from that, I have for many years distilled my personal philosophy down to eight words, which is that there is no them, there is only us.

And this book is my attempt to distill into the pages of a short book that philosophy.
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