Oct 9, 2026 · 49 min · 11 segments
**Today’s conversation is a fun one! We have the one, the only James Martin, who is a British designer, author, and educator best known as Made By James. For more than 20 years, he has helped…
Because one of the chapters is literally called in your book, The Cult of Complexity.
so i guess my question is around like why do you think designers and clients sometimes equate complicated with valuable and who benefits from all of that complexity and all of that that thinking that complex equals better
complex complexity let's just make up a word because that's complex yeah complexity complexity yeah it's um hey look so i think um well i don't think i know when i wrote the book the com the kind of cult of complexity was basically around how we use language um and i think the language specifically within our space the design world brand world has become Maybe a little bit overly complex.
I mean, you only have to spend two minutes reading somebody's LinkedIn bio to try and figure out what they do.
Do you know what I mean? I've been in the design world for 20 years and I read some of these people's bios like I create immersive content.
gobble-wobble, synergising, experiential experiences that wow and connect with diversifying...
Do you know what I mean? You just look at it and you go, what on earth does that fucking mean? Golly.
So I think the language that we've used is probably, you know, I mean, it's a proxy, isn't it? Proxy for effort.
if we, as designers, use more complex language, it essentially, does it increase our value? Do you know what I mean? If we make something sound more difficult than it actually is, we are more valuable.
And I think that's essentially where the complexity has continued to come in and obviously been exacerbated by, you know, the social medias and the thought leadership and the content and all of these things.
They create a little bit of this kind of melting pot and, you know, especially also when you have a load of designers wanting to show off to a load of other designers.
Do you know what I mean? Designers spend so much time trying to show off to their other designer mates now rather than trying to you know, talk to their clients.
So, you know, the client's If they're wanting to buy a brand identity or get strategy, they would expect if they're dropping some change down to get a lot back.
And if they understood it all and it could be done on one piece of paper and it looks super easy, they'd be like, what's that? Do you know what I mean? I just paid you loads of money and you're just telling me I just have to have this brand idea and just focus on my reputation and I'm going to do great? And you're like, yeah.
Can I have my money back? Do you know what I mean? So I think there's probably a little bit of that as well.
Do you know what I mean? And like I said, I think clients probably want to feel like they've built something that's substantial bought something that's substantial and clients and designers on the other side want to feel like they've built something substantial so I think that's probably where the theatre comes in especially around language but you know I think it's like with anything isn't it I think it's probably one of the advantages of being slightly dyslexic and stupid do you know what I mean you just have to learn to like simplify stuff you know I like to use the right words at the right time but I also use the the wrong words at the wrong time all the time.
It kind of sounds all right in my head, but I can't even spell half the words I say.
Because one of the chapters is literally called in your book, The Cult of Complexity.
so i guess my question is around like why do you think designers and clients sometimes equate complicated with valuable and who benefits from all of that complexity and all of that that thinking that complex equals better
complex complexity let's just make up a word because that's complex yeah complexity complexity yeah it's um hey look so i think um well i don't think i know when i wrote the book the com the kind of cult of complexity was basically around how we use language um and i think the language specifically within our space the design world brand world has become Maybe a little bit overly complex.
I mean, you only have to spend two minutes reading somebody's LinkedIn bio to try and figure out what they do.
Do you know what I mean? I've been in the design world for 20 years and I read some of these people's bios like I create immersive content.
gobble-wobble, synergising, experiential experiences that wow and connect with diversifying...
Do you know what I mean? You just look at it and you go, what on earth does that fucking mean? Golly.
So I think the language that we've used is probably, you know, I mean, it's a proxy, isn't it? Proxy for effort.
if we, as designers, use more complex language, it essentially, does it increase our value? Do you know what I mean? If we make something sound more difficult than it actually is, we are more valuable.
And I think that's essentially where the complexity has continued to come in and obviously been exacerbated by, you know, the social medias and the thought leadership and the content and all of these things.
They create a little bit of this kind of melting pot and, you know, especially also when you have a load of designers wanting to show off to a load of other designers.
Do you know what I mean? Designers spend so much time trying to show off to their other designer mates now rather than trying to you know, talk to their clients.
So, you know, the client's If they're wanting to buy a brand identity or get strategy, they would expect if they're dropping some change down to get a lot back.
And if they understood it all and it could be done on one piece of paper and it looks super easy, they'd be like, what's that? Do you know what I mean? I just paid you loads of money and you're just telling me I just have to have this brand idea and just focus on my reputation and I'm going to do great? And you're like, yeah.
Can I have my money back? Do you know what I mean? So I think there's probably a little bit of that as well.
Do you know what I mean? And like I said, I think clients probably want to feel like they've built something that's substantial bought something that's substantial and clients and designers on the other side want to feel like they've built something substantial so I think that's probably where the theatre comes in especially around language but you know I think it's like with anything isn't it I think it's probably one of the advantages of being slightly dyslexic and stupid do you know what I mean you just have to learn to like simplify stuff you know I like to use the right words at the right time but I also use the the wrong words at the wrong time all the time.
It kind of sounds all right in my head, but I can't even spell half the words I say.
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