Sep 24, 2026 · 42 min · 9 segments
Matthew Hodgson, founder of Zen X Machina, joins Dave West to unpack the Raptors project, an experiment that started by accident during digital transformation work and grew into a working model for…
Matthew HodgsonGuest
Dave WestHost
Does that mean that you have to spend more time as the product owner and the human in the loop really refining the context and the goal in a more effective way to allow them to really be able to say, is this still valid, this assumption or these sets of assumptions?

I've got to be more explicit about the sprint goal and the relationships between the items in the backlog and why these items are going in the sprint.

But part of sprint planning as we go through it is, again, some governance files in order to be able to help them to provide that kind of structure.

So rather than, for example, going that the task is supreme and I'm going to do everything to execute the task and bypass all of the rules, there is an explicit hierarchy around what they can't touch and what is flexible.

And so that as well with the sprint goal then helps to create basically this bounded authority about where their work starts, where it finishes, and importantly, then what decisions that I should be making.

So yes, being more explicit, we've worked through that after, and that's taken something that's probably about six months worth of work with Raptors to work out what works in terms of being more explicit.

and working through then how they then interrogate those things without violating the definition of done, for example.

How they move through the escalation paths of single, double, or triple-loop learning, and at what point should I actually be involved, as opposed to them going, oh, there's a problem, that's okay, Matt will fix it.

Or, oh, I've done some copy, and I'm not really happy about this particular part, so we'll all stop.

And then we'll just sit back and have a virtual coffee and wait for him to find it.

So all of the normal social aspects that you've got with a human team, where humans can, through just simple social interaction, kind of keep tab on each other.

And product owner can walk through or over the cubicle or even pop up in a chat and go, oh, yeah, how things are going.

So being more explicit helps me as a product donor know where I need to focus.

And now I've finally got to the point of going, great, as the human, the team, it's called the irreversibility boundary.

What's the last sensible moment for me to act? And typically it's publishing or it's releasing software.

Does that mean that you have to spend more time as the product owner and the human in the loop really refining the context and the goal in a more effective way to allow them to really be able to say, is this still valid, this assumption or these sets of assumptions?

I've got to be more explicit about the sprint goal and the relationships between the items in the backlog and why these items are going in the sprint.

But part of sprint planning as we go through it is, again, some governance files in order to be able to help them to provide that kind of structure.

So rather than, for example, going that the task is supreme and I'm going to do everything to execute the task and bypass all of the rules, there is an explicit hierarchy around what they can't touch and what is flexible.

And so that as well with the sprint goal then helps to create basically this bounded authority about where their work starts, where it finishes, and importantly, then what decisions that I should be making.

So yes, being more explicit, we've worked through that after, and that's taken something that's probably about six months worth of work with Raptors to work out what works in terms of being more explicit.

and working through then how they then interrogate those things without violating the definition of done, for example.

How they move through the escalation paths of single, double, or triple-loop learning, and at what point should I actually be involved, as opposed to them going, oh, there's a problem, that's okay, Matt will fix it.

Or, oh, I've done some copy, and I'm not really happy about this particular part, so we'll all stop.

And then we'll just sit back and have a virtual coffee and wait for him to find it.

So all of the normal social aspects that you've got with a human team, where humans can, through just simple social interaction, kind of keep tab on each other.

And product owner can walk through or over the cubicle or even pop up in a chat and go, oh, yeah, how things are going.

So being more explicit helps me as a product donor know where I need to focus.

And now I've finally got to the point of going, great, as the human, the team, it's called the irreversibility boundary.

What's the last sensible moment for me to act? And typically it's publishing or it's releasing software.
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