Episode 18: The trouble with average customers

In this episode of Pebble Presents, I chat with Paul Peterson, founder of CoinJar Insights & Strategy and author of The Catalytic Customer: Accelerating Innovation and Growth from the Outside In, about business innovation and the catalytic customer. You’ll hear us discuss Paul’s career arc, his journey to planning, innovation, and becoming an author, what innovation actually means, and why product and marketing aren’t necessarily talking about the same thing. We’ll also discuss why research fails innovation, and where companies are getting it wrong. We’ll talk about The Catalytic Customer, who they are, what traits to look for, and how to find them. And finally, we dive into what A.I. changes about customer insights, and what it fundamentally can’t change.  **Emelia Rallapalli** is the founder of Pebble – a brand strategy and marketing research consultancy. With decades of experience in global brand planning, strategy, and research, Pebble has helped shape businesses of all kinds, from ambitious start-ups to global Fortune 100 companies.  **Paul Peterson** is the founder of CoinJar Insights & Strategy and author of The Catalytic Customer: Accelerating Innovation and Growth from the Outside In.  With more than 30 years in market research and innovation consulting, he has worked with companies including Google, Amazon, BMW, and HP, helping teams navigate high-stakes product and positioning decisions. His work is grounded in a simple observation: most teams don’t struggle to gather input—they struggle to decide what to trust. His book introduces the concept of the Catalytic Customer—experienced, highly engaged individuals in a category whose perspectives help reveal where the market is going and what will make a product meaningfully better.  Today, he works with product leaders to identify and apply these customers’ insights in moments where decisions need to hold under real-world pressure. Welcome to Pebble Presents. \- - - - - - - - - If you liked this episode of Pebble Presents, please share it with colleagues and friends! Find us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify to rate/review/subscribe to the show. Want more? Visit PebbleStrategy.com.  You can also find us on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/pebble-strategy/) and Instagram(https://www.instagram.com/pebblestrategy/). Thanks for listening and joining the conversation! **References** - CoinJar Insights & Strategy website: https://www.coinjarinsights.com/ - The Catalytic Customer by Paul Peterson: https://bookshop.org/a/124174/9798999505736 - Paul Peterson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-peterson-mr/ - Find Pebble Presents on YouTube **Show Notes**  0:27 - Emelia introduces Paul Peterson, founder of CoinJar Insights and author of *The Catalytic Customer* 2:12 - Paul’s path from ad agency temp to 30 years in market research 09:53 - The pivot to book author 15:48 - Defining "innovation" — and where product and marketing miss each other 21:10 - Why research often fails to prevent bad decisions 25:38 - The role of trust in data — and the early warning signs of a broken approach 29:42 - The origin of "catalytic customer" 33:36 - Why every chapter ends with an action worksheet 35:23 - The three traits of a catalytic customer, vs. a heavy user 40:28 - Turning "they're too knowledgeable" on its head 43:42 - Building a systematic process for catalytic customer input 46:19 - Where AI helps insights — and where it pushes toward average 51:30 - Lightning round 57:18 - Closing thoughts and where to find the book **Episode Credits** Executive Produced & Hosted by Emelia Rallapalli Produced by Stephanie Watanabe  Edited and Post Produced by Erin Zimmerman Artwork and design by Liisa Turan-Walters