October 11, 2026 with Michael Barbaro

Yeah, definitely.

And then, so from going from "The Run Up" in November of 2016 to kind of making that decision to continue audio, why did you feel it was so crucial to tap into audio media?

[lips smack] Well, I think one of the things that later we would come to understand in particular about audio is that-- And I, I think other people understood it at the beginning, but I didn't 'cause I w- I was new to audio, is that it's a very transparent medium.

It's a, it's a really valuable place in which to show people the process of journalism.

So let me just explain.

So if you're [lips smack] writing a newspaper story, almost the entire experience for the consumer of that story is unseen and unheard.

You pick up the phone, you go to an event, you scribble things down in your notebook, then you go back to your desk and you write a story, and you get this kind of final product in front of you on the page.

And then you read it, and it's, it's not a, a-- A newspaper story is not designed to tell you how the information was acquired.

It's just kind of a s- It's just kind of the final version of the information.

And I think audio storytelling is almost by definition [lips smack] about telling people the story of kind of, in our case with, of "The Daily," of kind of how you got the information and how you thought about the information.

In many cases, we're literally sh- You're, you're asking people to listen in on the journalism process, so you'll hear reporters out in the world, uh, recording themself asking questions.

You'll hear me out in the world at a campaign event talking to voters.

And so it really brings you inside the process so much more, and I think as a result makes people trust what they're hearing more than if you're just handed a story and said like, "Trust me, this is, this is what I got," because you can hear the journalist at work in audio.

Yeah, absolutely.

And then when we speak about transparency in journalism, right? Especially with the huge surge of AI and also AI being used within media, I just wanted to ask you why you think it's important to have so much more transparency when we talk about showing the behind-the-scenes process of journalism.

journalism.Yeah, well, AI makes everything a little more interesting and complicated because, again, especially with the written word, you can safely assume when it comes to The New York Times that you're not reading an AI-written story.

I promise you that's not happening.

But [lip smack] in the rest of the ecosystem, AI is being adopted in, in some parts of the world of journalism, in all kinds of spheres of writing.

Um, there is no AI in audio yet that I know of that-- in any kind of mass...

Well, I should be careful.

There actually are some podcasts that are using AI.

Uh, we're not, and, uh, and I think we'd have to tell you if we ever were gonna do it.

And so it's another way of, of kind of-- fighting back is too strong a word.

It's another way of making clear to people how we perform the art and craft of journalism and, and, and AI at this moment is not a part of how we tell stories on The Daily.

Yeah, definitely.

And then, so from going from "The Run Up" in November of 2016 to kind of making that decision to continue audio, why did you feel it was so crucial to tap into audio media?

[lips smack] Well, I think one of the things that later we would come to understand in particular about audio is that-- And I, I think other people understood it at the beginning, but I didn't 'cause I w- I was new to audio, is that it's a very transparent medium.

It's a, it's a really valuable place in which to show people the process of journalism.

So let me just explain.

So if you're [lips smack] writing a newspaper story, almost the entire experience for the consumer of that story is unseen and unheard.

You pick up the phone, you go to an event, you scribble things down in your notebook, then you go back to your desk and you write a story, and you get this kind of final product in front of you on the page.

And then you read it, and it's, it's not a, a-- A newspaper story is not designed to tell you how the information was acquired.

It's just kind of a s- It's just kind of the final version of the information.

And I think audio storytelling is almost by definition [lips smack] about telling people the story of kind of, in our case with, of "The Daily," of kind of how you got the information and how you thought about the information.

In many cases, we're literally sh- You're, you're asking people to listen in on the journalism process, so you'll hear reporters out in the world, uh, recording themself asking questions.

You'll hear me out in the world at a campaign event talking to voters.

And so it really brings you inside the process so much more, and I think as a result makes people trust what they're hearing more than if you're just handed a story and said like, "Trust me, this is, this is what I got," because you can hear the journalist at work in audio.

Yeah, absolutely.

And then when we speak about transparency in journalism, right? Especially with the huge surge of AI and also AI being used within media, I just wanted to ask you why you think it's important to have so much more transparency when we talk about showing the behind-the-scenes process of journalism.

journalism.Yeah, well, AI makes everything a little more interesting and complicated because, again, especially with the written word, you can safely assume when it comes to The New York Times that you're not reading an AI-written story.

I promise you that's not happening.

But [lip smack] in the rest of the ecosystem, AI is being adopted in, in some parts of the world of journalism, in all kinds of spheres of writing.

Um, there is no AI in audio yet that I know of that-- in any kind of mass...

Well, I should be careful.

There actually are some podcasts that are using AI.

Uh, we're not, and, uh, and I think we'd have to tell you if we ever were gonna do it.

And so it's another way of, of kind of-- fighting back is too strong a word.

It's another way of making clear to people how we perform the art and craft of journalism and, and, and AI at this moment is not a part of how we tell stories on The Daily.