Aug 8, 2026 · 2 hr 12 min · 10 segments
In one of our final episodes, Rivka and Frank are joined by pod favorite, award-winning author and professor Harvey Kaye, to discuss the John Sayles drama City of Hope. Filled with an ensemble of…
Harvey KayeGuestYou, you were ta- we were kinda talking about the, started talking about the, the building complex, the projects, and I thought maybe we can start, that's kind of the heart of the movie, right? And we can kinda maybe start with that.
It's like the most heart-wrenching part.
It's also like, it's also the part where like to talk about the difference between capitalism and socialism, it's like a really important part because the idea of like housing as a human right, and like looking at those, what could happen to those houses under a different system, what should happen and what could happen, right, to a place like that.
Like, you know, when, when so often people talk about housing in other places like New Zealand or I- I, you know, places where you're like, oh, they have really, really great housing for...
I'm trying to think of like movies where you're like, oh, wait a minute, you, that's socialized housing and it looks like our best, most expensive apartments here, and you're like, "Holy shit." Um-
Oh, yeah.
Like, like social housing with like everyone has their own terrace and like-
Yes
... green space and yeah.
It's, they're like-
You'll be wa- I feel like, yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like Worst Person in the World has some mo- Like, you'll just be watching a regular, regular old great flick there and then be like, "Holy.
Wait, are you telling me that they're not, they're not paying thousands and thousands of dollars a month for that?" So this housing project in another world could very possibly be some place that these people who are already living there have just like someone come in and make it a place to live, right? Like f- paint, fix the walls, like put it to...
And instead, they're so desperate for anywhere to live that they've been, they've basically been trying, treating them so inhumanely up until this point of just like, the bottom line is like, "Oh, I just, I'm s- I'm a good guy" Joe is, Joe, the guy who's like, um, Nick's father, he's kinda like-
Mm-hmm
... "I'm a good guy because I haven't killed them." That's like where we meet him, right? Like-
Yeah.
[laughs]
Yeah.
It's already been condemned.
He's, he's stopped picking up the trash.
You, you were ta- we were kinda talking about the, started talking about the, the building complex, the projects, and I thought maybe we can start, that's kind of the heart of the movie, right? And we can kinda maybe start with that.
It's like the most heart-wrenching part.
It's also like, it's also the part where like to talk about the difference between capitalism and socialism, it's like a really important part because the idea of like housing as a human right, and like looking at those, what could happen to those houses under a different system, what should happen and what could happen, right, to a place like that.
Like, you know, when, when so often people talk about housing in other places like New Zealand or I- I, you know, places where you're like, oh, they have really, really great housing for...
I'm trying to think of like movies where you're like, oh, wait a minute, you, that's socialized housing and it looks like our best, most expensive apartments here, and you're like, "Holy shit." Um-
Oh, yeah.
Like, like social housing with like everyone has their own terrace and like-
Yes
... green space and yeah.
It's, they're like-
You'll be wa- I feel like, yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like Worst Person in the World has some mo- Like, you'll just be watching a regular, regular old great flick there and then be like, "Holy.
Wait, are you telling me that they're not, they're not paying thousands and thousands of dollars a month for that?" So this housing project in another world could very possibly be some place that these people who are already living there have just like someone come in and make it a place to live, right? Like f- paint, fix the walls, like put it to...
And instead, they're so desperate for anywhere to live that they've been, they've basically been trying, treating them so inhumanely up until this point of just like, the bottom line is like, "Oh, I just, I'm s- I'm a good guy" Joe is, Joe, the guy who's like, um, Nick's father, he's kinda like-
Mm-hmm
... "I'm a good guy because I haven't killed them." That's like where we meet him, right? Like-
Yeah.
[laughs]
Yeah.
It's already been condemned.
He's, he's stopped picking up the trash.
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