Aug 6, 2026 · 1 hr 9 min · 12 segments
Eighteen months ago, WattTime and Climate TRACE co-founder Gavin McCormick told us we're going to beat climate change. Full stop. And that made us so uncomfortable, our team couldn't stop talking…
Baratunde ThurstonHost
Gavin McCormickGuestI'm concerned about a company that reports that its data center is 100% green-
... investigative journalism, I don't know if that's real, or is that an accounting trick, or is it-
The big story we are seeing there is that there's this fierce fight now on how carbon will be defined, and everybody's trying to claim the mantle of, like, "I'm the green person.
Trust me," like, "I'm the person who can say what's green." And, like, how are you supposed to know as a regular person? And so, you know, before I show you something that maybe will, will be clarifying, I'll just say, like, my fear is we're seeing the rise of this 24/7 hourly matching claim, which is that the only way to know-
I'm concerned about a company that reports that its data center is 100% green-
... investigative journalism, I don't know if that's real, or is that an accounting trick, or is it-
The big story we are seeing there is that there's this fierce fight now on how carbon will be defined, and everybody's trying to claim the mantle of, like, "I'm the green person.
Trust me," like, "I'm the person who can say what's green." And, like, how are you supposed to know as a regular person? And so, you know, before I show you something that maybe will, will be clarifying, I'll just say, like, my fear is we're seeing the rise of this 24/7 hourly matching claim, which is that the only way to know-
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