Jul 21, 2026 · 59 min · 11 segments
Send us Fan Mail Your best learning doesn’t happen when you’re calm and confident. It happens when you’re stuck, under pressure, and finally willing…
Caroline Slee-PoulosGuest
Ron SleeHost
And then the trick becomes, how does an employee become loyal? Well, the fundamental is that they know how to do their job.

And that shocked the hell out of me that most people never really understood what the job was, nor were they trained by their boss to what the job expected.
But, but here's the missing leg in that, uh, Ron, and we've talked about this.
My, my father-in-law, Joe McEwen, who founded modern really understood that by sharing the wealth with the business, And then when I came in to the board, we went ahead and we executed on an employee stock ownership plan.
And, but here's the genius that Joe had and he and I worked our way through.
We had an ESOP for 20 years before we pulled the trigger to sell it to the employees as our transition.
Well, why do you do that? So that when you pull the trigger, to move shares to the employees, you don't take on an unmanageable debt load.
Because most ESOPs fail because the amount of debt they take on the owners are fine.
But the company then has debt that's not invested in capital or inventory or AR.

And then the trick becomes, how does an employee become loyal? Well, the fundamental is that they know how to do their job.

And that shocked the hell out of me that most people never really understood what the job was, nor were they trained by their boss to what the job expected.
But, but here's the missing leg in that, uh, Ron, and we've talked about this.
My, my father-in-law, Joe McEwen, who founded modern really understood that by sharing the wealth with the business, And then when I came in to the board, we went ahead and we executed on an employee stock ownership plan.
And, but here's the genius that Joe had and he and I worked our way through.
We had an ESOP for 20 years before we pulled the trigger to sell it to the employees as our transition.
Well, why do you do that? So that when you pull the trigger, to move shares to the employees, you don't take on an unmanageable debt load.
Because most ESOPs fail because the amount of debt they take on the owners are fine.
But the company then has debt that's not invested in capital or inventory or AR.
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