Default Alive Without VC Money

Let's get into it, Kevin.

All right.

So, so first, first topic, uh, the...

And, and you actually talked about this in a recent episode, too.

Um, you know, we had a conversation about, like, what if the cap table fell on the printer? It's a very expensive document, right? The, the one that you, that you sign your operating agreement with your, your business partner, your co-founders, and, and oftentimes, um, you, you don't read it.

Your lawyers prepare it, you sign it, and you say, "Okay, great.

I've got that done." And we had that conversation with Eric Ries, and we know where things can go really wrong when people do that.

So when it's time to buy out the co-founder, you know, or it's time to kind of create that next pool of, of options for that next kind of team that you're gonna hire based on the raise that you just did, you know, how do you, how do you think about those things? And so, you know, one of the things that, that I wanted to talk about with you in particular is you've been through kind of many different of these formative events in your various companies' histories, including, you know, having to buy out a co-founder and, and kind of dealing with challenging dynamics between people that are running companies together.

Like, you know, just, just level with us, true Founder Mode energy, Kevin.

Like, what's, what have you learned from all of that, and what would, what wisdom would you share with other founders that are grappling with similar things?

Yeah.

So I think the, the first, there's no right answer or no one formula, right? Like, everything is, like, super contextual and sometimes emotional.

And I think the...

To me, like, looking back, like, if I was to, like, go back through some of these conversations and some of these pieces, it's really, like, trying to just be human about understanding what each person wants or needs and how they wanna show up, right? 'Cause a lot of times there's a lot of ego involved of like, oh, I need to be this or I need to have that or...

And I think the one sort of like redeeming principle that, you know, I, I always lean back on, which is way more about, like, how do you grow the pie and not fight over your share, right? 'Cause a lot of times people are negotiating over, like, hey, a few percent this way or that way or some sort of slice.

But if the overall pie is not worth anything or the comp- most companies don't make much, right? They don't go...

You know, the, the average startup goes out of business.

It doesn't really matter how big of a slice you got of a company that went out of business, where the, the real goal is to how do you get everybody excited and aligned so that we grow this pie so big that the slice, you know, in, in pizza terms, you know, fills everybody's belly.

And so I think that's, you know, the guiding principle.

So I think to me, the, the founder thing is, like, always messy, and it's not just founder, it's team.

How do you incentivize owners? And then, but I think the other one is, like, what's the goal of this company? Like, is this a company you're gonna go venture back and try to, like, sell? Is this a company that you're gonna run as like a, you know, kind of permanent capital equity kinda model where, where you're gonna get dividends and sort, sort of like partner shares off of it? I think all that stuff matters.

You know, where do you base your companies? We've seen all this hype around, you know, companies moving to Texas now.

But I think that, you know, is, like, another thing.

Like, I was doing a deal with a security company, and they, um, their domicile for legal disputes was Idaho 'cause that's where they were based.

And I was like, "Guys, like, no rational lawyer's gonna accept Idaho.