Fireside Chats: Behind The Build
Oct 8, 2026 · 50 min · 13 segments
In this episode of Leading Indicators, Curtis Forbes sits down with Randy Mely, an independent people analytics consultant and ICF-credentialed coach based in London, for a conversation about why most…
Curtis ForbesHost
So another scenario, and, and, and I'm curious if you've run into this, um, you know, we, we c- we've covered it briefly together in the conversations that we've had, but there's...

You know, imagine some systems, right? Uh, multiple systems in the same company that get asked the same question, you know.

Let's say, for example, uh, how many employees do we have? You know, finance has 4,200.

They're just counting differently, right? Contractors in one, leavers not processed in another.

Have you seen these things where you have multiple systems within an organization all answering the same question differently?
There's just different definitions or kind of governance standards being applied to each one of those systems.
Um, there's something called, I think it's called Siegel's Law, and I think it's basically a man that has a watch knows what time it is.
And in that situation, right, you've got three different watches that you're looking at.
And so the question is, well, which is the golden source? And that all comes back to data governance and figuring out what's the definition we all agree on what head count is.
What's the timeline that we're looking at? You know, what's the cutoff for turnover, for leavers, I should say.
Unless all that is ironed out across the board, you're gonna always have, you know, d- I guess, data sources conflicting with each other.
... until you have that st- that standard definition, you're gonna be talking different language, you're gonna have different clocks.

In that leadership meeting where, you know, you have three people, you know, confidently quoting three different numbers, what hap- what happens in that room?

And I like answering, asking you this question because you're answering this question as the people leader, the product owner, and the coaching seat, and I'm like, "Well, h- you know, you're, you're the right person to answer that question." What's going on in that room? [chuckles]

So another scenario, and, and, and I'm curious if you've run into this, um, you know, we, we c- we've covered it briefly together in the conversations that we've had, but there's...

You know, imagine some systems, right? Uh, multiple systems in the same company that get asked the same question, you know.

Let's say, for example, uh, how many employees do we have? You know, finance has 4,200.

They're just counting differently, right? Contractors in one, leavers not processed in another.

Have you seen these things where you have multiple systems within an organization all answering the same question differently?
There's just different definitions or kind of governance standards being applied to each one of those systems.
Um, there's something called, I think it's called Siegel's Law, and I think it's basically a man that has a watch knows what time it is.
And in that situation, right, you've got three different watches that you're looking at.
And so the question is, well, which is the golden source? And that all comes back to data governance and figuring out what's the definition we all agree on what head count is.
What's the timeline that we're looking at? You know, what's the cutoff for turnover, for leavers, I should say.
Unless all that is ironed out across the board, you're gonna always have, you know, d- I guess, data sources conflicting with each other.
... until you have that st- that standard definition, you're gonna be talking different language, you're gonna have different clocks.

In that leadership meeting where, you know, you have three people, you know, confidently quoting three different numbers, what hap- what happens in that room?

And I like answering, asking you this question because you're answering this question as the people leader, the product owner, and the coaching seat, and I'm like, "Well, h- you know, you're, you're the right person to answer that question." What's going on in that room? [chuckles]
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