Jun 11, 2026 · 25 min · 10 segments
In this episode, David Wilding, EVP of Strategy at WPP, joins guest host, Kate Tovey, Director of Customer Engagement at JCDecaux, to explore why brand marketing needs a rebrand in today’s boardrooms…
David WildingGuest
Kate ToveyHost
And I think that it points a lot to the role that more performance-led, sort of bottom-of-funnel marketing is sort of having in today's society.

And I think that we've seen quite a seismic change over the last decade or so, with people sort of being very wedded to short-termist marketing strategies, a real bias, I think, towards things like click-through rates.

And so I wondered really what your point of view on that is and sort of how you've seen things evolve during your time in marketing.

And I had noticed a significant difference in that sort of 10 years I was away from agencies to coming back.

You know, quarterly reporting, annual planning, genuinely people are sort of incentivized on an annual basis.

And sort of lower funnel performance media, you know, tends to sort of go green.

When you add in, you know, economic instability and just... world volatility which we've had pretty much seemingly now forever and we're sort of getting used to that that short-term bias you speak of naturally sinks in but i think it comes at a cost and we're basically mistaking what is effective with what is efficient so for you know each quarter it's very easy to optimize for efficiency and lower funnel metrics and it's very attractive to get a dashboard that goes green and shows that what you're doing is having this this you know some impact on whatever the dashboard is measuring.

I remember Rory Sutherland once saying that actually the biggest trick, or for a better word, that the big platforms play is convincing us, their genius is convincing marketers and media people that the thing that they deliver and measure are the most important things in marketing rather than things like having a differentiated brand and emotion and everything else that goes with it.

You can see it playing out in the data because there's been a significant decline in brand differentiation over the last 15 years.

And it's seismic at the same time as all of our money is going more and more into digital platforms.

So this short-term investment really is coming at a cost in terms of brand building.

And I think, you know, in a channel out of home, we know that it does that brand building activity so much.

And I think that it points a lot to the role that more performance-led, sort of bottom-of-funnel marketing is sort of having in today's society.

And I think that we've seen quite a seismic change over the last decade or so, with people sort of being very wedded to short-termist marketing strategies, a real bias, I think, towards things like click-through rates.

And so I wondered really what your point of view on that is and sort of how you've seen things evolve during your time in marketing.

And I had noticed a significant difference in that sort of 10 years I was away from agencies to coming back.

You know, quarterly reporting, annual planning, genuinely people are sort of incentivized on an annual basis.

And sort of lower funnel performance media, you know, tends to sort of go green.

When you add in, you know, economic instability and just... world volatility which we've had pretty much seemingly now forever and we're sort of getting used to that that short-term bias you speak of naturally sinks in but i think it comes at a cost and we're basically mistaking what is effective with what is efficient so for you know each quarter it's very easy to optimize for efficiency and lower funnel metrics and it's very attractive to get a dashboard that goes green and shows that what you're doing is having this this you know some impact on whatever the dashboard is measuring.

I remember Rory Sutherland once saying that actually the biggest trick, or for a better word, that the big platforms play is convincing us, their genius is convincing marketers and media people that the thing that they deliver and measure are the most important things in marketing rather than things like having a differentiated brand and emotion and everything else that goes with it.

You can see it playing out in the data because there's been a significant decline in brand differentiation over the last 15 years.

And it's seismic at the same time as all of our money is going more and more into digital platforms.

So this short-term investment really is coming at a cost in terms of brand building.

And I think, you know, in a channel out of home, we know that it does that brand building activity so much.
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