Sep 2, 2026 · 17 min · 7 segments
Saeema & Melisa explore- and through their conversations with Clive Grinyer, one of the founders of Tangerine, and creative technologist Jude Pullen - how design and it methods and thinking provides…
Saeema Ahmed-KristensenHostJude PullenGuest
Melisa LeneroHost
Clive GrinyerGuest
Yeah, I think this is a very good episode to discuss, as you said, like not only from how the product has evolved, but also from the perspective of when we explain to people that we are designers, sometimes they always think of it's a product, right? Like it's one product that is tangible.
might be a subscription, might be behavioral change even, or a system or a story, a story to tell how to go from point A to point B, how to change behavior from a person or a system that is convey through a story.
So right now, I think we have different outputs and all of that can be also combined to create an output of design.
And when we were taught as industrial designers, it was also very much about different types of tangible kind of things that you can grasp, that you can play, as you were saying, Saima, with the blue foam that also was our friend.
And I remember also with my friends that sometimes the quality of the product was not exactly great.
And one hack that we used was using powder like baby powder and then you just like cover it with uh with paint so then it gives you some texture so it was like a better way of showing the end result but it was tangible in at the end of the day and i think we we are more comfortable now as not only including physical products as a chair that a lot of uh has been kind of like the ultimate outcome of of designed back in, I would say, the 70s.
So the takeaways I've got is that design has a value beyond designing a product.
And you've been fortunate enough to work with many organizations to help shift that.
You've also talked about The idea of the lipstick on the pig, you said, right? So the idea that often you come with a solution and there's opportunities to think beyond that one solution and think about another way of thinking about the problem to open that up and design brings a process into that.
It's about identifying the love of all parts of stakeholders and almost moving to a world of what would that love look like in there.
And I think it's really exciting to hear how you're working across disciplines, bringing philosophers in with you and looking at that and sharing that in mechanisms of open design, rather than thinking about commercial output, but sharing those principles beyond them.
Yeah, I think this is a very good episode to discuss, as you said, like not only from how the product has evolved, but also from the perspective of when we explain to people that we are designers, sometimes they always think of it's a product, right? Like it's one product that is tangible.
might be a subscription, might be behavioral change even, or a system or a story, a story to tell how to go from point A to point B, how to change behavior from a person or a system that is convey through a story.
So right now, I think we have different outputs and all of that can be also combined to create an output of design.
And when we were taught as industrial designers, it was also very much about different types of tangible kind of things that you can grasp, that you can play, as you were saying, Saima, with the blue foam that also was our friend.
And I remember also with my friends that sometimes the quality of the product was not exactly great.
And one hack that we used was using powder like baby powder and then you just like cover it with uh with paint so then it gives you some texture so it was like a better way of showing the end result but it was tangible in at the end of the day and i think we we are more comfortable now as not only including physical products as a chair that a lot of uh has been kind of like the ultimate outcome of of designed back in, I would say, the 70s.
So the takeaways I've got is that design has a value beyond designing a product.
And you've been fortunate enough to work with many organizations to help shift that.
You've also talked about The idea of the lipstick on the pig, you said, right? So the idea that often you come with a solution and there's opportunities to think beyond that one solution and think about another way of thinking about the problem to open that up and design brings a process into that.
It's about identifying the love of all parts of stakeholders and almost moving to a world of what would that love look like in there.
And I think it's really exciting to hear how you're working across disciplines, bringing philosophers in with you and looking at that and sharing that in mechanisms of open design, rather than thinking about commercial output, but sharing those principles beyond them.
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3 of 4
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