Sep 7, 2026 · 59 min · 11 segments
Hosted by **Phil Goff** and **Chris Finlayson**, **Cross Party Lines** takes to the stage at The Piano in Christchurch for a sold out live episode that opens with a tribute to the resilience of…
Phil GoffHost
Chris FinlaysonHost
So, Phil, the Chinese in the Pacific seems to be causing quite a lot of discussion amongst the Australians, the New Zealanders, and, belatedly, the Americans.

Yeah, well, it's kind of sad because the Pacific Island Forum is an important forum for New Zealand.

I mean, the distance from here to Palau is the same distance from London to Central Africa.

But it is the region that we live in, and the wellbeing and the security of that region is pretty important.

And the importance of the forum, 18 countries, was that if it can speak with one voice, I think probably 15, 16 of those countries are United Nations members, that most of them are micro countries.

If you take Australia, Papua New Guinea and New Zealand out of it, There's 43 million people in the Pacific Forum.

But speaking together and doing things in the Pacific way made that forum quite an important forum.

And what you had in Palau was... a withdrawal, first of all, of five countries, and it wasn't coincidental, five countries not sending their leaders, I should clarify, to the forum, and the leaders' forum is the most important part of the overall forum.

That speaks, I think, they were all countries with quite close links with China, It speaks of geostrategic interference and it speaks of the forum becoming the victim of a geostrategic rivalry between the United States and China and Taiwan.

Taiwan because simply there are three countries, Palau, Marshall Islands and Tuvalu, that still recognise Taiwan rather than China.

And what you're seeing at the forum is that dominating a forum that should have been focused on other things.

Well, why wouldn't they be? I mean, it's been handed to them on a plate by Donald Trump.

That is an existential threat to every country, every small island country in the Pacific.

And then he imposed tariffs of at least 10%, but rising to 50% on tiny island states and wondered why China was laughing all the way to the diplomatic bank.

So China has made inroads, but my theory is this, Chris, that neither China nor the United States, in whatever they do in the Pacific, are doing it for the best interests of the Pacific.

So, Phil, the Chinese in the Pacific seems to be causing quite a lot of discussion amongst the Australians, the New Zealanders, and, belatedly, the Americans.

Yeah, well, it's kind of sad because the Pacific Island Forum is an important forum for New Zealand.

I mean, the distance from here to Palau is the same distance from London to Central Africa.

But it is the region that we live in, and the wellbeing and the security of that region is pretty important.

And the importance of the forum, 18 countries, was that if it can speak with one voice, I think probably 15, 16 of those countries are United Nations members, that most of them are micro countries.

If you take Australia, Papua New Guinea and New Zealand out of it, There's 43 million people in the Pacific Forum.

But speaking together and doing things in the Pacific way made that forum quite an important forum.

And what you had in Palau was... a withdrawal, first of all, of five countries, and it wasn't coincidental, five countries not sending their leaders, I should clarify, to the forum, and the leaders' forum is the most important part of the overall forum.

That speaks, I think, they were all countries with quite close links with China, It speaks of geostrategic interference and it speaks of the forum becoming the victim of a geostrategic rivalry between the United States and China and Taiwan.

Taiwan because simply there are three countries, Palau, Marshall Islands and Tuvalu, that still recognise Taiwan rather than China.

And what you're seeing at the forum is that dominating a forum that should have been focused on other things.

Well, why wouldn't they be? I mean, it's been handed to them on a plate by Donald Trump.

That is an existential threat to every country, every small island country in the Pacific.

And then he imposed tariffs of at least 10%, but rising to 50% on tiny island states and wondered why China was laughing all the way to the diplomatic bank.

So China has made inroads, but my theory is this, Chris, that neither China nor the United States, in whatever they do in the Pacific, are doing it for the best interests of the Pacific.
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