How Much Energy Does AI Really Need, And Is Nuclear The Answer? Ep270: Arshad Mansoor

Will AI break the grid? As hyperscalers race to build ever-larger data centres, electricity demand is soaring. The question is no longer whether power demand will grow, but by how much, how quickly, and whether the grid can deliver. This week, Michael Liebreich is joined by Arshad Mansoor, President & CEO of the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI), one of the world's leading energy research organisations. Together, they tackle one of the biggest questions facing the global energy system: how much electricity will AI really need, and can our power systems keep up? They debate the scale of AI-driven demand growth, whether the extraordinary investment by hyperscalers is justified, and how greater flexibility could allow data centres to connect faster without overwhelming the grid. They also discuss the growing public backlash against AI infrastructure, why winning local support may become the industry's biggest challenge, and whether nuclear power is truly the "get out of jail free card" many believe it to be or simply one part of a much bigger solution. **Topics included in this episode:** - The race to power AI data centres - Hyperscalers' trillion-dollar AI investment - Can electricity grids keep pace with AI's rapid growth? - Gigawatt demand forecasts - Making data centres more flexible - Public acceptance and the growing backlash against AI - Nuclear power's role in the AI era - What governments, utilities and investors should do next **Leadership Circle:** Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live **Links:** - Arshad Mansoor’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arshad-mansoor-a2090b165/ - EPRI, Electric Power Research Institute: https://www.epri.com/ - Jigar Shah on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCOaF-qQ\_TU - Varun Sivaram & Steve Smith on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kSrgRZUCwE - Rob Dunn on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juAyLAUmU3w&t=2s - Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ **Papers referenced**: - DC Flex Mosaic: https://dcflex.epri.com/flex-mosaic/open-letter - Win Win Watts: https://winwin.epri.com/en/introduction.html - Make Electricity Cheap Again: https://mliebreich.substack.com/p/make-electricity-cheap-again **Acronyms:** - GPU: Graphics Processing Unit - IPO: Initial Public Offering - NESO: National Energy Systems Operator - HVO: Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil - SMR: Small Modular Reactor **Chapters:** - 00:00 Intro - 02:29 About EPRI - 06:08 AI Power Demand - 10:45 Gigawatt Debate - 17:19 Hyperscaler Risk - 26:15 Compute In Households - 31:24 24/7 Data Power - 38:28 Public Acceptance - 41:39 Fear Of AI - 49:39 A Nuclear Solution? - 58:38 24/7 Reliable Power - 01:08:00 Final Thoughts